Rob is the God thank you finally. But to answer this pages question yes everything came from the blues then to rock and so on it just branched so mant times now Black and Death metal.

Metal came from rock, but is still different. rock came from the blues but is it in the same genre? No. Bands like Led Zeppelin and Deep Purple helped to influence Metal while Black Sabbath was the only real Metal Band in the early 70's. But Songs like Heartbreaker helped to influence fast guitar playing and shredding which influenced bands like Judas Priest. Judas Priest would combine the speed of Led Zeppelin and the Dark Heavy feel of Black Sabbath to take metal further, and they would help to bring shredding into metal. Van Halen was a rock band not metal but they also had lots of influence on shredding as well, and even influenced Priest to take shredding further.

Metal and rock, even hard rock are different stiles of music, just because a stile is influenced by another deos not mean they are the same thing.

Yes, in the begining (sabbath) it came out of rock, but now its it is own genre, metal, NOT "rock"

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Not directly I mean it came from hard rock which is a genre of rock. But hard rock & metal are different but hard rock is the closest sounding genre to metal.

Well let's see, Black Sabbath and Blue Cheer were (accepted by most people's opinions) to be the first true metal bands. They derived their musical influences from Blues Rock bands like Vanilla Fudge and Cream, who took their influences from the blues, and made their own genre of bluesy rock (the first form of rock), who influenced like I said, bands such as Blue Cheer and Black Sabbath a bit later. They took these influences, and slowed the tempo, accentuated the bass, emphasized screaming guitar solos, and thus early forms of metal were created, first called heavy metal. Sabbath's music later changed a bit and turned into a genre that became known as traditional doom metal, the earliest form of doom, which later influenced bands to make stoner and sludge metal, the offsprings off doom, which was the offspring of heavy metal. Speed metal was one of the first early metals born from the original heavy metal of Sabbath, where some musicians thought, "Hey lets play heavy metal, but speed it up a bit and add some more energy". Later speed was combined with punk rock influences, and made thrash metal, and so on and so forth, the tree of metal genres became bigger and bigger.

So pretty much... yes, Metal came from rock, rock came from blues, etc. But also, yes, Metal is not the same genre as rock. Because once it took it's influences from rock, people changed it up and made it unique.

To the guy above, Blue Cheer really isn't a metal band, they're a blues rock band. They were very heavy for their time and surely an influence on metal, but did not use metal riffs themselves.

And of course metal came from rock. Just listen to Sabbath's self titled album; half the songs on their are blues rock.

Written by [user id=111774] on 18.04.2011 at 07:52

To the guy above, Blue Cheer really isn't a metal band, they're a blues rock band. They were very heavy for their time and surely an influence on metal, but did not use metal riffs themselves.

And of course metal came from rock. Just listen to Sabbath's self titled album; half the songs on their are blues rock.

Alright true, Blue Cheer being considered a metal band is a bit controversial. I myself do see them more as a blues rock band, but I just put them in there more because sometimes people like to argue they were the first instead of Sabbath.
But i do see them as the last step, before rock became metal by Sabbath's hand. They were like the tie that tied blues rock to metal, the bridge, so to speak. blues rock - heavier blues rock - heavy metal

Written by Balthazine on 18.04.2011 at 07:57

Written by [user id=111774] on 18.04.2011 at 07:52

To the guy above, Blue Cheer really isn't a metal band, they're a blues rock band. They were very heavy for their time and surely an influence on metal, but did not use metal riffs themselves.

And of course metal came from rock. Just listen to Sabbath's self titled album; half the songs on their are blues rock.

Alright true, Blue Cheer being considered a metal band is a bit controversial. I myself do see them more as a blues rock band, but I just put them in there more because sometimes people like to argue they were the first instead of Sabbath.
But i do see them as the last step, before rock became metal by Sabbath's hand. They were like the tie that tied blues rock to metal, the bridge, so to speak. blues rock - heavier blues rock - heavy metal

If the guys in Sabbath listened to Blue Cheer, then they would have been an obvious influence on Sabbath, and thus every other metal band. In my humble opinion, they deserve the place in the development of metal currently held by Zeppelin-Almost there but not quite. Basically what you said.

Metal started as a fusion of rock and blues. end of story.

Written by [user id=111774] on 18.04.2011 at 08:03

Written by Balthazine on 18.04.2011 at 07:57

Written by [user id=111774] on 18.04.2011 at 07:52

To the guy above, Blue Cheer really isn't a metal band, they're a blues rock band. They were very heavy for their time and surely an influence on metal, but did not use metal riffs themselves.

And of course metal came from rock. Just listen to Sabbath's self titled album; half the songs on their are blues rock.

Alright true, Blue Cheer being considered a metal band is a bit controversial. I myself do see them more as a blues rock band, but I just put them in there more because sometimes people like to argue they were the first instead of Sabbath.
But i do see them as the last step, before rock became metal by Sabbath's hand. They were like the tie that tied blues rock to metal, the bridge, so to speak. blues rock - heavier blues rock - heavy metal

If the guys in Sabbath listened to Blue Cheer, then they would have been an obvious influence on Sabbath, and thus every other metal band. In my humble opinion, they deserve the place in the development of metal currently held by Zeppelin-Almost there but not quite. Basically what you said.

Right, there's no denying that Zepplin played a role in the development of metal as well. In fact there are probably several bands that could fit into that description, plus countless other bands that were most likely around, but never made it big and got recognized. Hell, for all we know, there could have been some high school garage band around in the mid 60's doing what Black Sabbath did, well before Black Sabbath were doing it. They just never got big because of it because maybe they were just a hobby band. Just something some buddies did after school to blow off some steam.

In theory, the role of rock influencing metal is pretty much power chords after bands like Maiden. Once you get to the mid80s with Malmsteen, Crimson Glory, Slayer, Agent Steel, Annihilator, the influence of rock ends and for the most part classical enters, and here and there Jazz too. Won't be a popular here, I can see with all the Sabbath worship, but most metal today clearly doesn't resemble BS, such as say Wintersun or Atheist, using jazz, and Wintersun's classical themes. No relation to BS whatever.

"You won't find blues in heavy metal" - Glenn Tipton.

Written by Yasmine on 18.04.2011 at 09:51

In theory, the role of rock influencing metal is pretty much power chords after bands like Maiden. Once you get to the mid80s with Malmsteen, Crimson Glory, Slayer, Agent Steel, Annihilator, the influence of rock ends and for the most part classical enters, and here and there Jazz too. Won't be a popular here, I can see with all the Sabbath worship, but most metal today clearly doesn't resemble BS, such as say Wintersun or Atheist, using jazz, and Wintersun's classical themes. No relation to BS whatever.

"You won't find blues in heavy metal" - Glenn Tipton.

Well quite obviously they don't sound anything like Sabbath. But that's because their genres of metal evolved so many times from other genres that the influential sound is almost completely lost. It's very similar to say the theory of evolution. They evolved over time as new ideas were added and things were changed up. Eventually, while still being under the metal genre, they have lost most if not all of the original influential sounds of Black Sabbath. Like I said earlier, a good example might be the transition of heavy to thrash.

Heavy metal started with black sabbath, then earlier bands shortly after them came up with the idea of playing it faster and adding some other elements, made speed metal. Then punk rock influences were added to speed and created thrash. And from Thrash, spawned death metal around the mid to late 80's, which is why most early forms of death metal sound thrashy in nature. And from death, came melodic death, black metal (not too long after early death was created), and so on. So, while yes, later bands of different subgenres don't sound anything like Sabbath anymore, they can still be traced back through the metal family tree to BS.

I disagree that they can be traced back to Sabbath for anything more than power chords, in theory bands today can not trace anything but that back to Sabbath, take say Stratovarius so influenced by Classical, where can they trace that back to? Certainly NOT Black Sabbath AT ALL. I would argue that Black Sabbath exhibits Very little of what we call metal, and that calling Sabbath metal would make ANYTHING WITH POWER CHORDS metal. We know that this is not remotely accurate, but since there are so many Sabbath fans here I must quit while I'm ahead. lol

Ahead?

I love when people want to re-write history.

Written by X-Ray Rod on 18.04.2011 at 22:28

I love when people want to re-write history.

You know what I would say?

"Go to lick vanillia ice cream together with the others..."

Written by Yasmine on 18.04.2011 at 21:11

I disagree that they can be traced back to Sabbath for anything more than power chords, in theory bands today can not trace anything but that back to Sabbath, take say Stratovarius so influenced by Classical, where can they trace that back to? Certainly NOT Black Sabbath AT ALL.

If you use the same idea, then most of the types of Rock in the 80's, 90's and 00's has nothing to do with 50's rockabilly moviment. Then, Rock doesn't belong to Rock. (?)

The "Metal Genre" web isn't all the sub-genres connected directly to their ancestrals, there are also intermediaries that leads to other sub-genres. And you will find this in lots of others genres webs (e.g blues, jazz, rock) (maybe more complex or not), It's far from being exclusive to Metal.

I agree. Development-wise, it did come from rock. However, metal in terms of today's metal is something that doesn't shout it came from Rock. But that's just for the fact it is so much different compared to Rock. I just think it evolved into what it is today from Rock, early riff rock and music that had the rebellious element to it.

Of course all metal originated from Sabbath. Listen to Master of Reality. You can clearly hear the roots of both doom metal, and thrash metal in the song Into the Void. Which for the record was not an inspiration for my name, despite being a kickass tune.

Written by [user id=111774] on 19.04.2011 at 03:44

Of course all metal originated from Sabbath. Listen to Master of Reality. You can clearly hear the roots of both doom metal, and thrash metal in the song Into the Void. Which for the record was not an inspiration for my name, despite being a kickass tune.

Exactly. Into The Void is a great example of metal evolution.

Don't forget Deep Purple.

If people don't hear metal in songs like Children of The Grave... Then they don't know shit about what they are talkning about

Written by X-Ray Rod on 19.04.2011 at 16:30

If people don't hear metal in songs like Children of The Grave... Then they don't know shit about what they are talkning about

If people don't get it, then this is mandatory:


Shows how heavy as fuck those songs can get with minor arrangement changes (well, not that they aren't already).

Written by ForeverDarkWoods on 19.04.2011 at 17:17

Written by X-Ray Rod on 19.04.2011 at 16:30

If people don't hear metal in songs like Children of The Grave... Then they don't know shit about what they are talkning about

If people don't get it, then this is mandatory:

Shows how heavy as fuck those songs can get with minor arrangement changes (well, not that they aren't already).

That was... Awesome!

Candlemass... great band, and great album.

Basically it's like this: Blues - Rock - Hard Rock - Heavy Metal - all other sub-genres... they all have differences, but it all started somewhere, with a main musical influence, and people took it from there on...

Nailed it AD!
i have nothing further to say.

Hard rock, very similar to Metal? Not at all and by a long shot. I would say hard rock has nothing in common with extreme Metal, at least. The fact that I love Thrash and Black Metal, while I despise hard rock, speaks for itself.