Religion: Double Standards
Original post
Posted by APOHAKC, 08.04.2008 - 15:49
Now to the point, in every day life I see a lot things and contradictories that are pissing me off, whole idea for a thread came when I saw Dutch movie Fitna, you probably already heard about it, it is about Islam, scenarist was accused for hate speech while movie is called racist?! (since when religion and race are connected) and hateful. In the movie, they put strong anti-muslim accent, doesn't matter does I support or not whole concept of the movie, to sum it up, man that made a movie was literally impaled in the media because of the whole project.
Also, we have a bunch of movies that never ever got permission to be shown on tv about anti-judaism, (and please do not invert my words, anti-judaism and anti-semitism is not one the same), they were immediately shown as racist and hateful in the media, not rarely people were even imprisoned for making them.
Now, we have a bunch of anti-Christian movies on tv, that no one never ever bash as racist, that are shown daily on tv, no one ever question religious correctness of those movies, truth, mostly Christian by birth made those movies, but again, as someone declare himself as an anti-Christian what difference does it makes?
Question is, WHY is it ok to bash on Christianity and it is NOT ok to bash on any other religion and immediately it is characterized as hateful speech?
Examples in music, Ukrainian band Nokturnal Mortum had both anti-judaistic and anti-Christian lyrics, no one ever question anti-Christian part cause that's ok, but everyone bitch about anti-judaism?! What's with that?
80% of you are openly anti-Christian, and bash on Christianity on this forum and real life most probably, same as some metalstormers I know, once, I said to one member in real life damn they want to build stupid mosque in the middle of the town and he looked at me like that I said Gods knows what and told me don't be a racist (again?!), but never ever he said anything to me when I dozens of times said that Cathedral in the center of the town should be burned? (yeah, a little of trve metal behavior..)
Once on this forum member said to other member stop with you judaistic crap, I remember that very well, post was deleted and he got warned for racism again, but I also saw DOZENS of time members saying similar things like stop your Christian crap to other members and no one ever got warned for that.
Why is it ok to bitch about Christianity and it is blasphemy to bitch about all other organized religions (especially Islam and Judaism)?!?
Looks like a double standard to me...
| IncoherentScream Posts: 106  |
I think the better question is; if you aren't religious why waste your time bashing religious people? I don't know maybe it's just me but I feel that my time is much better spent advancing myself as a human being rather than worrying about how someone else is going about doing the same thing. Then again...like I said...that's just me. Oh and please don't bring up the stereotypical crap about what Christian, Muslim, Jews, etc. have done/do/are like this...just stop yourself. You can do that with different races, nationalities, class (low-income/high-income), etc. It doesn't matter where your from or what ideology you subscribe to me. If your cool your cool, and if your not then I guess I'm not hanging with you anymore. No loss for me or them. Everyone goes home happy.
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| Mattybu Posts: 2589  |
Written by IncoherentScream on 26.01.2012 at 16:44 Well said, I really think that religious arguments are often times close to the epitome of pointlessness, and that if you aren't religious that's fine, but just don't go around trying to prove everyone else wrong, just settle down and do your own thing.
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| Oaken Hipster Posts: 1322  |
Written by Angelic Storm on 05.12.2011 at 21:56 Thanks for saying that. People who are tricked by the media actually THINK that all Muslims are terrorists. That's very erroneous. Written by Troy Killjoy on 22.12.2011 at 20:09 Looks like le media is doing its work fine... *sigh* As for religion itself, I think the flaw is in the people who follow it, not the ideology itself. For example, I think that if the rules of Islam are followed by someone PERFECTLY, it would differ a lot from the stupid Qaeda asses. If you look upon religion without looking at its followers, you'll appreciate it more, because it teaches honesty, love and self-discipline. However, not all Muslims actually have these qualities, which affects a non-Muslim person's view on Islam. IMO the existence of a deity is undeniable. Personally, I respect anyone with a religion and a deity, but I find that atheists don't make sense at all.
---- In that case, man is only air as well.
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| Branzig Posts: 891  |
I'm somewhere between atheist and agnostic, and I couldn't be happier in life! Just like the great DOOM song says, "No more Gods, no more wars, no more wars no more crimes!" Words to live by.
---- In Grind We Crust
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| Angelic Storm Melodious Posts: 6675  |
Written by Oaken on 21.03.2012 at 00:28 Not so. If it were undeniable, everyone would believe in a deity. The whole reason why religions are regarded as "faiths", is because people's belief in the existence of a god is exactly that. A belief, and no more. If the existence of a diety could be proven, everyone would believe. But it can't be proven. Also, everyone would follow one single religion, instead of the whole host of different religions that exist in the world today. If the existence of god could be proven, there would only be the need for one religion, not several. As for saying you only respect people who have a religion, well... in that case it should be okay for athiests and agnostics to show you no respect either. I don't have a religion, and nor do I believe wholeheartedly in the existence of a diety. But I respect everyone's right to believe in what they want, so long as they cause no harm to others in the process.
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| X-Ray Rod Skandino Staff Posts: 18374  |
Written by Oaken on 21.03.2012 at 00:28 It's exactly people like you that give the media the reasons to bash any sort of organized religion. Not respecting those with different thoughts and calling them senseless... You are no different than the media you hate.
---- Written by BloodTears on 19.08.2011 at 18:29 Written by Milena on 20.06.2012 at 10:49
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| Oaken Hipster Posts: 1322 |
Written by Angelic Storm on 21.03.2012 at 09:00 Actually, you can't scientifically prove the existence of God. You can't disprove it too. Look at the world around you. Don't you agree that every effect has a cause and that every object has a creator? Think of it on a larger scale, the whole world. It must have been made by someone. So there probably is a maker, and since the maker has total control over the made, he can harm us if we displease him. That is why it is better to be on his side. As for atheism, I'm sorry but I didn't mean I don't respect them. Two of my best friends are atheists and I always argue with them, but we're still friends. So I apologize if you (and apparently Mr. Doctor) misunderstood me. Finally, I agree on what you said about everyone believing in God if he was visible. I think that God hid himself as a test to us, to challenge our faith. Thanks for reading.  Written by X-Ray Rod on 21.03.2012 at 16:23 Please read my reply to Angelic Storm.
---- In that case, man is only air as well.
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| Oaken Hipster Posts: 1322 |
Written by [user id=105293] on 21.03.2012 at 19:30 I'm ready.
---- In that case, man is only air as well.
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| Cal Wolvington Account deleted |
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| Cal Wolvington Account deleted |
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| Oaken Hipster Posts: 1322 |
Written by [user id=105293] on 21.03.2012 at 19:36 Then how did the world come to exist?
---- In that case, man is only air as well.
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| Marcel Hubregtse Grumpy Old Fuck Elite Posts: 40071  |
Written by Oaken on 21.03.2012 at 19:41 how did the creator come to exist?
---- Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.) 05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996 
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| Oaken Hipster Posts: 1322 |
Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 21.03.2012 at 19:43 He had a history of his own... Of which we know nothing.
---- In that case, man is only air as well.
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| Cal Wolvington Account deleted |
Cal Wolvington
Account deleted Written by Oaken on 21.03.2012 at 19:41 You see, I don't even need to answer that. Just because we don't completely understand how something came to be, doesn't prove that it was created by an immaterial efficient cause called God. That's just not how you prove something. "I don't know, so it must be God" is not an argument. BTW, I am schizoid an mean sometimes, but I am not trying to destroy your faith (a crime in my eyes, really), I am just waiting for a solid argument.
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| Ernis 狼獾 Posts: 6815  |
Written by [user id=105293] on 21.03.2012 at 19:52 You're making him ask good questions and also in a nice and polite manner. If only all atheists/agnostics were like you, I'd just love having wondrous and friendly convos behind a cup of ale... because it's not about "God doesn't exist! That's a fact! Prove the contrary!" vs "God does exist! Can't understand why you're bitching!"... it's bout being friends and respecting each other... ; ) 
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| Oaken Hipster Posts: 1322 |
Written by [user id=105293] on 21.03.2012 at 19:48 Thanks for your kindness. I might not have the strongest of "philosophical" arguments, but I have a million reasons to be a Muslim. Written by [user id=105293] on 21.03.2012 at 19:52 I'd like to believe it, because I feel God's existence. Science can't prove God, only a clear soul can find him. Many people say they don't believe in God because it can't be proven and can't be disproved. Suppose that God exists and there is hell; Those guys will suffer. On the other hand, if God didn't exist and there's no judgement, they would have enjoyed their lives and won't suffer anything. Which path would you choose? Would you rather take the hard path with the definitely good end or the entertaining path that has an uncertain end (Good if God didn't exist, bad if he did) taking into account that Religion teaches people good virtues like honesty and makes their society better? And concerning the challenge: 
---- In that case, man is only air as well.
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| Troy Killjoy perfunctionist Staff Posts: 21306  |
Written by Oaken on 22.03.2012 at 01:42 In theory.
---- "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something."
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| Oaken Hipster Posts: 1322 |
Written by Troy Killjoy on 22.03.2012 at 02:51 Religion teaches, but people DON'T always learn.
---- In that case, man is only air as well.
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| Troy Killjoy perfunctionist Staff Posts: 21306 |
Written by Oaken on 22.03.2012 at 02:53 That's not what you said at first. You said religion makes societies better and provides people with good virtues such as honesty. Which is in no way entirely true. But then of course we'd be debating human nature rather than religion's double standards. All I can say is you have absolutely no proof or evidence that any society is better or worse due to any religious influence (or lack thereof), and that there aren't any statistics relevant to religion imparting "good" virtues in those who study/follow a certain sect.
---- "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something."
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| Cynic Metalhead Ambrish Saxena Posts: 7564  |
Everytime i hear the word "Religion" it remarkably strikes me of country India. A very strong cultural nation where people are divided into so many castes, beliefs, behavior,food their own well defined lifestyles and what not but internally they act as a chronic Indian citizen. Religion's Double Standard? Yeah it rigorously prevails here, you don't even think by how much amount of these guys can castigate another caste discriminantly and don't even allow their girl/guy to get married in other caste just because the rules/regulations doesn't allow them to fit in. Hit a internal part of Rural areas where you see girls are a perfect product to put a high stake and keep swinging in Buy/Sell business(OPEN..NOT EVEN LIKE A PROSTITUTE BUSINESS) and on the side they're sacred element in India. Hit the Supreme court, you gonna find ample amount of so many cases like this. they say India is a most religious country? may be. but every country have a loopholes and down to any roof "Religious" is heavily criticized and it ought to be double standard. Big deal? i don't think so...
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| Troy Killjoy perfunctionist Staff Posts: 21306 |
What did I just read.
---- "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something."
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| X-Ray Rod Skandino Staff Posts: 18374 |
Written by Oaken on 22.03.2012 at 01:42 Even if they are good people? If someone lives his life as a good man with a good set of standards and morals yet he doesn't believe in God, under your idea he would go to Hell... Do you really believe that's a good judgement? If a deity existed, I highly doubt said deity would be so arrogant to condemn those who lived their lifes perfectly only because they didn't believe.... If that deity don't reward and punish those who had a honorable lifes despite not believing.... Said deity is evil. If afterlife exist... Great men and women should be rewarded for their past lifes no matter what they believe in or not. I suggest you to think again about the comment I just quoted. It's not as simple as you think.
---- Written by BloodTears on 19.08.2011 at 18:29 Written by Milena on 20.06.2012 at 10:49
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| Troy Killjoy perfunctionist Staff Posts: 21306 |
Written by X-Ray Rod on 22.03.2012 at 13:47 You'd think so. I mean, that makes more sense than believing in the existence of a god and leading a bad life but being absolved of your transgressions simply because you believe in said god. It's kind of like the workplace. Some managers promote from within based on work ethic. Some managers hire from the outside looking only at qualifications on a piece of paper.
---- "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something."
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| Cal Wolvington Account deleted |
Cal Wolvington
Account deleted Written by Oaken on 22.03.2012 at 01:42 Strong philosophical arguments are preciosity what I want. So far you have only provided me with something like the watchmaker fallacy (no, it is not the watchmaker argument, it is a fallacy). Written by Oaken on 22.03.2012 at 01:42 And who am I to tell you that you don't feel God's existence, perhaps you do, but feelings are about as far away from being proof as George Lucas is from ever making a great film again in his life. Written by Oaken on 22.03.2012 at 01:42 Pascal's wager is moot simply because one god might sent me to hell for believing in another one  I'd be pretty screwed if after I die having lived a life of Thor-worshiping I end up in front of Zeus and he's not too happy about it. Of course now we're not talking philosophy anymore, but you started it.
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| mojo Posts: 93  |
To firmly believe in one thing that can't be proven and can only experienced through faith, may necessitate believing in everything that can't be proven and can only be experienced through faith. Otherwise, where do you draw the line? Believe in any god/dess, you pretty much have to believe in faeries, astrology, orgones, Father Christmas, multiple universes, Justin Bieber and countless other things the existence of which can't be proven. Either you believe in it all, or none of it. Anything else demonstrates that it's only about picking and choosing according to taste and not at all about whether something is true or not. And since a negative can't possibly be proven, the burden of proof is always on the one asserting the propostion and not the one denying it. As far as I'm concerned, if you laugh at an someone for believing in faeries then they have every right to laugh back at you for believing in a god. It's all about balance, right? So for anyone religious, i challenge you to show me that God is more believable and relevant than faeries. Should be easier than providing undeniable proof of God's existence - after all, it's comparative and not definitive. So go for it
---- Yeah. No. Wait, what was the question?
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| mojo Posts: 93 |
Written by [user id=105293] on 22.03.2012 at 16:56 Really? Surely anything which is imagined but can't be proven is equally arbitrary. If Zeus, Krishna and Odin are equivalent to faeries, then Jehovah and Allah are also equivalent to faeries, since in the minds of many humans who live and have lived, Zeus, Krishna and Odin are equivalent to Jehovah and Allah. Unless you mean to say that hindus and pagans are definitely wrong, whereas jews, christians and moslems are definitely right. [Edit to Add...] I understand what you're saying, but the distinction made in Judeao-Christian cultures between "God" and "gods" is entirely self-serving and can only be backed up through reference to itself. That's arbitrary! And talk about double standards...
---- Yeah. No. Wait, what was the question?
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