Written by deadone on 13.02.2014 at 01:06

There's a reason the top 200 is filled with old stuff. That's the stuff that pioneered the genre and set the standard.

The difference in this case being that Behemoth, old or new, doesn't deserve to be on there.

Then again, neither does half the stuff on the list, so I guess that's a moot point.

Surely the top 200 is all justified because it's exactly what it purports to be - the top 200 ranked albums when adding up all the votes. Just because you don't agree with some of the albums of there (and who would ever agree with all of them) doesn't make it wrong. How could anyone be so arrogant to think they are the arbiter of what should be on there or not. If you want your own top 200, then all you have to do is create your own list.

Written by deadone on 13.02.2014 at 06:51

I agree with your post! I just don't like a lot of what's in top 200.

But new stuff be it Behemoth or whatever shouldn't really be allowed until voting is more settled.

I reckon it's okay to allow new stuff in. Most of it tends to settle down over time, as people realise they got a bit carried away in the moment. I remember the latest Be'lakor was in the top 200, not long after it came out and had more than 200 votes, then it dropped out. The same may or may not happen with The Satanist.

Written by deadone on 13.02.2014 at 07:07

A Top 200 shouldn't have sucjh fluctuations. It's meant to be some sort of list of creme de la creme of metal, and not open to flights of fancy.

Well they may or may not be flights of fancy. Some people believe that there is "love at first sight" and it might be the same with music. Sometimes people hear an album and love it straight away. I just don't think it would be fair, or even practical, to in some way prohibit an album entry into the top 200 list until a certain amount of time has passed.

Written by deadone on 13.02.2014 at 07:07
A Top 200 shouldn't have sucjh fluctuations. It's meant to be some sort of list of creme de la creme of metal, and not open to flights of fancy.

But it will never be. Any mongrel can cast it's vote, so why would you even think of it as a legimate best-of collection? Do you find Billboard or Grammies good? It's the exact same thing here, just in a smaller scale.
Better just drop it.

Top 200 is only a list of the favorite albums by MS users, nothing more. Why would one give it some sort of legitimacy or pretending it represents something it doesn't ? I know a lot of people here think lists are super-duper important and get all excited over them, but come on.....

On topic, hmmmm it's simply an average album. For sure, a (small) step forward after the last few that where mediocre as hell, but The Satanist isn't good enough to be considered as such. Ora Pro Nobis Lucifer is a great track though.

The very fact the top 200 requires albums with at least 200 votes renders it totally worthless anyway.

Written by [user id=4365] on 13.02.2014 at 15:56
The very fact the top 200 requires albums with at least 200 votes renders it totally worthless anyway.

Useless to those of us who dig for good music but ideal for someone just getting into metal - they can start with the big names and classic albums and more accessible material without being overwhelmed by the immensity of the underground.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 13.02.2014 at 16:38

Written by [user id=4365] on 13.02.2014 at 15:56
The very fact the top 200 requires albums with at least 200 votes renders it totally worthless anyway.

Useless to those of us who dig for good music but ideal for someone just getting into metal - they can start with the big names and classic albums and more accessible material without being overwhelmed by the immensity of the underground.

The top 100 'insert genre' are more useful imo. When someone is getting in metal, he usually latches onto a sub genre pretty quickly (as it was with me, I hooked onto black metal when I started) so the genre lists means that he/she will get what he/she wants easier. Plus they show invisible bands too.

I really love O Father O Satan O Sun. The theme song is also so good. not as heavy as you might expect but it's still so damn good.

This albums is growing on me. I enjoy the guitar solos on a couple of the songs. Overall, it doesn't blow me away but at this stage I'd probably rate it around a 7.4. I might explore some earlier Behemoth as well, just to hear what that sounds like.

This album by far the best album of behemoth...every damn song is worth listening ...people who rated this album below 8 definitely dislike behemoth...especialy d one who said that 'lucifer' was boring...behemoth is known for its harsh lyrics and style...nd by bringing out this album they have reached a new level...hail satan! hail behemoth!..\m/..

Written by Heka69 on 13.02.2014 at 13:25

Written by deadone on 13.02.2014 at 07:07
A Top 200 shouldn't have sucjh fluctuations. It's meant to be some sort of list of creme de la creme of metal, and not open to flights of fancy.

But it will never be. Any mongrel can cast it's vote

And who decides who is a mongrel and who isn't? What makes you think that you aren't one?

Written by Dinruth on 14.02.2014 at 13:18
And who decides who is a mongrel and who isn't? What makes you think that you aren't one?

I sure am one. Aren't we all? However,

Written by rahul77 on 14.02.2014 at 12:21

This album by far the best album of behemoth...every damn song is worth listening ...people who rated this album below 8 definitely dislike behemoth...especialy d one who said that 'lucifer' was boring...behemoth is known for its harsh lyrics and style...nd by bringing out this album they have reached a new level...hail satan! hail behemoth!..\m/..

Written by rahul77 on 14.02.2014 at 12:21

...hail satan! hail behemoth!..\m/..

Written by rahul77 on 14.02.2014 at 12:21

hail

Written by rahul77 on 14.02.2014 at 12:21

\m/

As the evidence allows us to conclude, some are clearly more mongrelish than others. But that's okay. Besides making a big open smile (emoticon: ":D") and being thankful of still retaining over 40% of your braincells, there are really no other valid actions in a situation, where an album objectively not rightful of holding an entry to a toplist has one. It's a mass-opinion, and more often or not, it's not correct. But what is correct, then? Only your own opinion, pretty much. So this whole battle is useless, but hey, it gives us a context to write provocative replies to each other.

I love the atmosphere on this album. Also the dynamics of fast and slow. The drumming sounds fantastic and the guitar work is really good. You can hear the bass guitar in parts, which is really refreshing as you can't hear it in a lot of metal. I think this is an outstanding album when you spend a lot of time indulging in it. I'm a fan.

Written by Heka69 on 14.02.2014 at 15:27


As the evidence allows us to conclude, some are clearly more mongrelish than others. But that's okay. Besides making a big open smile (emoticon: ":D") and being thankful of still retaining over 40% of your braincells, there are really no other valid actions in a situation, where an album objectively not rightful of holding an entry to a toplist has one. It's a mass-opinion, and more often or not, it's not correct. But what is correct, then? Only your own opinion, pretty much. So this whole battle is useless, but hey, it gives us a context to write provocative replies to each other.

There is no objectivity in art ... and there is no such thing as "correct" in an opinion... for you some albums do not deserve a place in the top 200 .. for others they do . who is right? noone is right .. it's just a tool - as someone else has mentioned before - to get to know more metal that has an impact on certain people .. and I really hate the "mainstream" discussion .. I sometimes get the feeling, people define themselves as being special for listening to super-unknown-underground bands only and like trashtalking about more "mainstream" music ...

Overall I agree with The Satanist not being so special, but if it is the greatest piece of work ever released to someone else, that's cool

Written by Dinruth on 15.02.2014 at 15:36
who is right? noone is right

That's what I said.

Written by Heka69 on 15.02.2014 at 15:51

Written by Dinruth on 15.02.2014 at 15:36
who is right? noone is right

That's what I said.

Then I must have misread your post and we perfectly agree with each other

Written by Dinruth on 15.02.2014 at 15:36

I sometimes get the feeling, people define themselves as being special for listening to super-unknown-underground bands only and like trashtalking about more "mainstream" music ...

I think you are spot on there. I get that feeling all the time around here. It's a type of elitism that just makes the perpetrators look like snobs. And before someone jumps on me for even daring to suggest this - be clear that I'm not denying anyone the right to express their views.

Written by Ace Frawley on 15.02.2014 at 22:38

Written by Dinruth on 15.02.2014 at 15:36

I sometimes get the feeling, people define themselves as being special for listening to super-unknown-underground bands only and like trashtalking about more "mainstream" music ...

I think you are spot on there. I get that feeling all the time around here. It's a type of elitism that just makes the perpetrators look like snobs. And before someone jumps on me for even daring to suggest this - be clear that I'm not denying anyone the right to express their views.

I think this is a common point of view coz everyone associates elitism or "people that think they are special" with the underground. However, I have seen no proof of this on a regular basis, except for an mininal amount of people that usually dwell over at ANUS and still live in their parents basement.
Most people into more "underground" bands (ie. not mainstream, if you can even call that underground) will also appreciate more mainstream bands and don't consider bashing the popular bands as a holy task.
But I do think some people pull out the "your only like super underground stuff anyway" argument too often when discussing an album that got a lot of mainstream coverage.

When discussing about popular bands, some people seem to have difficulties to take in consideration the music/style/genre itself (for example, people that don't like modern Behemoth's style probably ain't gonna appreciate The Satanist simply coz of the music, nothing more) and rather bring up far-fetched arguments about being mainstream and whatnot, when no one gives a crap about it (except for ANUS-related individuals, obviously).

Written by Dinruth on 15.02.2014 at 15:36

I sometimes get the feeling, people define themselves as being special for listening to super-unknown-underground bands only and like trashtalking about more "mainstream" music ...

Depends on the person I guess. There are definitely people of this type of mentality out there, but I think I can speak for the more underground-inclined people in the Staff (myself, Joe, Troy, etc.) in saying that it's not so much that we don't like mainstream music, we just find many of its formulas to be cliche and overdone. But hey, if that works for some people, then no hate on them. Whatever gets the job done for you, right?

Written by Dinruth on 15.02.2014 at 15:36

Written by Heka69 on 14.02.2014 at 15:27

.. I sometimes get the feeling, people define themselves as being special for listening to super-unknown-underground bands only and like trashtalking about more "mainstream" music ...

Written by Auntie Sahar on 16.02.2014 at 07:26

Written by Dinruth on 15.02.2014 at 15:36

Depends on the person I guess. There are definitely people of this type of mentality out there, but I think I can speak for the more underground-inclined people in the Staff (myself, Joe, Troy, etc.) in saying that it's not so much that we don't like mainstream music, we just find many of its formulas to be cliche and overdone. But hey, if that works for some people, then no hate on them. Whatever gets the job done for you, right?

It's not about mentality nor about deliberate hate towards mainstream scene(music, art, movies etc). Talking about mainstream bands out here, you guys thinking too much of it. People starve for good music immaterial it's underground or mainstream bands. You'll see lot of people here bashing underground or obscure black, death or even thrash metal bands because their music not up to the mark. We don't have certain mentality or biased view about mainstream bands. Simple, if music is good it'll be appreciated otherwise bands like Warning, Ulver, Darkthrone or even Candlemass has got good amount of criticisms.

So, it depends upon good music as I said. Mainstream bands like Death Angel, Clutch, Evile, Enslaved, Satan have released fantastic records as well. Tagging certain amount of listeners as favorting underground music would be pretty much dull statement I would say.

Written by Cynic Metalhead on 16.02.2014 at 10:48



It's not about mentality nor about deliberate hate towards mainstream scene(music, art, movies etc). Talking about mainstream bands out here, you guys thinking too much of it. People starve for good music immaterial it's underground or mainstream bands. You'll see lot of people here bashing underground or obscure black, death or even thrash metal bands because their music not up to the mark. We don't have certain mentality or biased view about mainstream bands. Simple, if music is good it'll be appreciated otherwise bands like Warning, Ulver, Darkthrone or even Candlemass has got good amount of criticisms.

So, it depends upon good music as I said. Mainstream bands like Death Angel, Clutch, Evile, Enslaved, Satan have released fantastic records as well. Tagging certain amount of listeners as favorting underground music would be pretty much dull statement I would say.

Of course it's not true for every person listening to underground .. I myself appreciate a lot of underground so it would be retarded for me to think bad about underground listeners .. I just meant that I get the impression that SOME people act that way

Written by Auntie Sahar on 16.02.2014 at 07:26

Written by Dinruth on 15.02.2014 at 15:36

I sometimes get the feeling, people define themselves as being special for listening to super-unknown-underground bands only and like trashtalking about more "mainstream" music ...

Depends on the person I guess. There are definitely people of this type of mentality out there, but I think I can speak for the more underground-inclined people in the Staff (myself, Joe, Troy, etc.) in saying that it's not so much that we don't like mainstream music, we just find many of its formulas to be cliche and overdone. But hey, if that works for some people, then no hate on them. Whatever gets the job done for you, right?

of course .. and I certainly meant 'some people' not all people ..

Written by Vombatus on 16.02.2014 at 06:18

Written by Ace Frawley on 15.02.2014 at 22:38

Written by Dinruth on 15.02.2014 at 15:36

I sometimes get the feeling, people define themselves as being special for listening to super-unknown-underground bands only and like trashtalking about more "mainstream" music ...

I think you are spot on there. I get that feeling all the time around here. It's a type of elitism that just makes the perpetrators look like snobs. And before someone jumps on me for even daring to suggest this - be clear that I'm not denying anyone the right to express their views.

But I do think some people pull out the "your only like super underground stuff anyway" argument too often when discussing an album that got a lot of mainstream coverage.

you're probably right .. I don't know why I ahd the urge to get it out of my system, i don't even like the Satanist, I kinda just got that feeling reading some of the comments and for some reason I had to write it

Written by Dinruth on 16.02.2014 at 16:59

you're probably right .. I don't know why I had the urge to get it out of my system, i don't even like the Satanist, I kinda just got that feeling reading some of the comments and for some reason I had to write it

Even supposing you liked Satanist at the first place, I wouldn't bash you for being close-minded or whatever accusation people use on "mainstream VS underground" topics. That's really getting dumb and boring these days.

Written by Monolithic on 17.02.2014 at 09:49

Written by Dinruth on 16.02.2014 at 16:59

you're probably right .. I don't know why I had the urge to get it out of my system, i don't even like the Satanist, I kinda just got that feeling reading some of the comments and for some reason I had to write it

Even supposing you liked Satanist at the first place, I wouldn't bash you for being close-minded or whatever accusation people use on "mainstream VS underground" topics. That's really getting dumb and boring these days.

I was probably wrong writing it in this case, but I don't see how using this accusation in general is dumb ... I still believe that there are some people out there talking/thinking that way and I believe THAT is dumb and immature .. sry to the admins for drifting too far off topic ..

Written by Dinruth on 17.02.2014 at 10:37

I was probably wrong writing it in this case, but I don't see how using this accusation in general is dumb ... I still believe that there are some people out there talking/thinking that way and I believe THAT is dumb and immature .. sry to the admins for drifting too far off topic ..

whatever the case, it's getting more and more complicated every day when you get to know more people, tastes, ideologies, preferences, whatever.

To bring it on the right track, I still get a mixed message from The Satanist.

Written by Monolithic on 17.02.2014 at 10:54

Written by Dinruth on 17.02.2014 at 10:37

I was probably wrong writing it in this case, but I don't see how using this accusation in general is dumb ... I still believe that there are some people out there talking/thinking that way and I believe THAT is dumb and immature .. sry to the admins for drifting too far off topic ..

whatever the case, it's getting more and more complicated every day when you get to know more people, tastes, ideologies, preferences, whatever.

To bring it on the right track, I still get a mixed message from The Satanist.

sure thing .. Yeah certainly not a bad album, imo, but nothing mindblowing either

So I finally got off my ass and downloaded this and...


I'm pretty disappointed.

This could have been so much better. Most songs drag on far too long, and the lack of any real depth makes them even more boring. The vocals are very monotonous as well. Going to have to agree with Wormdrink on around a 6 rating. Although I could totally see it going down even more with more listens, but I don't think i'll bother.