Religion: Double Standards
Original post
Posted by APOHAKC, 08.04.2008 - 15:49
Now to the point, in every day life I see a lot things and contradictories that are pissing me off, whole idea for a thread came when I saw Dutch movie Fitna, you probably already heard about it, it is about Islam, scenarist was accused for hate speech while movie is called racist?! (since when religion and race are connected) and hateful. In the movie, they put strong anti-muslim accent, doesn't matter does I support or not whole concept of the movie, to sum it up, man that made a movie was literally impaled in the media because of the whole project.
Also, we have a bunch of movies that never ever got permission to be shown on tv about anti-judaism, (and please do not invert my words, anti-judaism and anti-semitism is not one the same), they were immediately shown as racist and hateful in the media, not rarely people were even imprisoned for making them.
Now, we have a bunch of anti-Christian movies on tv, that no one never ever bash as racist, that are shown daily on tv, no one ever question religious correctness of those movies, truth, mostly Christian by birth made those movies, but again, as someone declare himself as an anti-Christian what difference does it makes?
Question is, WHY is it ok to bash on Christianity and it is NOT ok to bash on any other religion and immediately it is characterized as hateful speech?
Examples in music, Ukrainian band Nokturnal Mortum had both anti-judaistic and anti-Christian lyrics, no one ever question anti-Christian part cause that's ok, but everyone bitch about anti-judaism?! What's with that?
80% of you are openly anti-Christian, and bash on Christianity on this forum and real life most probably, same as some metalstormers I know, once, I said to one member in real life damn they want to build stupid mosque in the middle of the town and he looked at me like that I said Gods knows what and told me don't be a racist (again?!), but never ever he said anything to me when I dozens of times said that Cathedral in the center of the town should be burned? (yeah, a little of trve metal behavior..)
Once on this forum member said to other member stop with you judaistic crap, I remember that very well, post was deleted and he got warned for racism again, but I also saw DOZENS of time members saying similar things like stop your Christian crap to other members and no one ever got warned for that.
Why is it ok to bitch about Christianity and it is blasphemy to bitch about all other organized religions (especially Islam and Judaism)?!?
Looks like a double standard to me...
| Troy Killjoy perfunctionist Staff Posts: 21306  |
Written by R'Vannith on 23.03.2012 at 07:23 You can be brought up a nut. I think it's completely fair seeing as how he's gone through the last two pages or so basically denouncing everyone else for not believing in his god. We're all the worst most vile sinners and we're all going to Hell and blah blah blah. He thinks morally corrupt believers are better people than ethical non-believers. That is the justification of a religious nut. "I believe in God. I kill babies in His name." (Granted access to Heaven for belief.) "I don't believe in God. I save human lives on a daily basis." (Punished in the afterlife for all eternity for not believing.)
---- "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something."
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| R'Vannith ghedengi Elite Posts: 3099  |
Written by Troy Killjoy on 23.03.2012 at 15:16 That is a perfect example, at least to my understanding, of closed mindedness. There is no lack of sanity involved there. You may be right in saying that you can be brought up to be a nut. But in this particular instance it seems like you are blurring the two together, closed mindedness and insanity. Unless the clarity of his posts deceive me he seems to certainly have his wits about him. It is obvious where his strong and uncompromising religious attitude stems from, it isn't from any deficiency of his mental state, it is from how his views have been shaped by the society within which he came to adopt his way of life. Of course I have little idea about the social context he grew up in, but it's easy to detect the high levels of indoctrination in his posts, so I'm assuming the society of which he was a part was likely extremely opposed to any notions of alternatives and rejection of religion, specifically his own faith. I can understand where you are coming from though. The label 'religious nut' is thrown around a lot nowadays I think. I personally believe it holds little accuracy when used a label of judgement, you can have quite sane people who strongly resent anti-religious sorts. Of course you can have terribly insane people as well, but to me it seems that 'Oaken' is just one with a stable mind heavily inundated with religious doctrine.
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| Troy Killjoy perfunctionist Staff Posts: 21306 |
Written by R'Vannith on 23.03.2012 at 16:11 Ya, that's my bad for using the term inappropriately. I didn't mean to imply he's literally insane, just like... crazily close-minded, that's all.  But still. This is Oaken we're talking about. This is like his seventh account here; he's requested his former accounts to be deleted (he did this about once a month before returning with some new alias) and he changes his music taste on a daily basis. He may not be crazy, but I wouldn't exactly say with confidence that he's perfectly sane, either.
---- "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something."
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| R'Vannith ghedengi Elite Posts: 3099 |
Written by Troy Killjoy on 23.03.2012 at 16:16 Ah I see what you mean, his mind is well padlocked and barricaded in other words.  In part this would have much to do with his youth I think, assuming he is 15.You seem to know more about him than I do, and that does seem like behaviour that's a little unusual. But yes, it may or may not imply insanity.
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| Angelic Storm Melodious Posts: 6675  |
I had no idea that Oaken was the Muslim guy who keeps opening and closing accounts mainly due to being unable to reconcile his like of metal music and his faith together. I should have guessed though, cos it's obvious now that I know...
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| Oaken Hipster Posts: 1322  |
Written by Troy Killjoy on 23.03.2012 at 01:25 I tried to be as subjective as possible. Maybe because I don't know how to argue well, I failed to be open-minded. Written by Angelic Storm on 23.03.2012 at 04:27 You have a point there. You made me REALLY think about this. I might be of the religious type, but I sometimes question religion. I still hold my beliefs like before, and have my own reasons to keep my religion intact, but you have succeeded in changing my view towards atheists. Congrats.
---- In that case, man is only air as well.
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| Marcel Hubregtse Grumpy Old Fuck Elite Posts: 40071  |
Written by Oaken on 24.03.2012 at 18:55 Yes clearly you were subjective and not objective at all 
---- Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.) 05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996 
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| Oaken Hipster Posts: 1322 |
Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 24.03.2012 at 19:35 Oh, sorry! I meant objective! 
---- In that case, man is only air as well.
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| X-Ray Rod Skandino Staff Posts: 18374  |
Written by Oaken on 24.03.2012 at 18:55 Of course you can hold to your beliefs if you want, that's ok.  I'm glad you understood the whole point though... Understanding that all cultures and different kinds of persons can be essentially the same in terms of good and bad... That's true wisdom and it's the kind of wisdom that this world needs so we can co-exist properly.
---- Written by BloodTears on 19.08.2011 at 18:29 Written by Milena on 20.06.2012 at 10:49
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| AngelofDeth Cyborg Raptor Posts: 1183  |
My friend brought this to my attention several months ago. I thought about it alot and yes, there is most definitely(at least in California) a double standard with religion rite now. It seems that its "cool" to bash christianity rite now. But i think one of the reasons Christianity is getting more flak than other religions is that, at least in America, it is the most widespread and mainstream religion. Our founding fathers were christian, almost every republican in the gov. is christian and theres churches everywhere. Since its the most prominent religion here, people have the most experience with it and therefore feel they have more grounds and the "right" to bash it. Whereas with other religions, Islam, Judaism, Buddhism etc etc. we dont understand it as much so we dont feel we have the grounds to justly bash a religion. For example: I feel comfortable bashing my own California Government because I have a great understanding of it, but i dont feel comfortable bashing the Canadian gov. because i dont know much about their gov. Just one thought why this double standard exists..
---- pewpew.. gotcha
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| Troy Killjoy perfunctionist Staff Posts: 21306 |
I'm baffled by your use of "rite" and "right". :/
---- "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something."
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| Branzig Posts: 891  |
Written by Troy Killjoy on 25.03.2012 at 04:06 I think this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rite
---- In Grind We Crust
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| Troy Killjoy perfunctionist Staff Posts: 21306 |
Written by Branzig on 25.03.2012 at 05:50 I understand the meaning. I'm just confused because he says things like "rite now" but then properly spells "right" later. I couldn't tell if puns were being made or what.
---- "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something."
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| Branzig Posts: 891 |
Written by Troy Killjoy on 25.03.2012 at 05:57 Yeah, that's what I meant when I posted the link...that he was trying to use puns...or irony He's just not doing them very well
---- In Grind We Crust
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| Marcel Hubregtse Grumpy Old Fuck Elite Posts: 40071 |
Written by Branzig on 25.03.2012 at 05:59 nope don't think he is because there's also theres, its etc used wrong, all over the place
---- Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.) 05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996
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| Slayer666 Posts: 2466  |
Written by Oaken on 24.03.2012 at 18:55 lawlz As if changing your mind about anything is difficult... My guess is you wake up with a completely different personality at least every Monday.
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| X-Ray Rod Skandino Staff Posts: 18374 |
Written by Slayer666 on 25.03.2012 at 13:48 That's pretty much the definition of "teenager".
---- Written by BloodTears on 19.08.2011 at 18:29 Written by Milena on 20.06.2012 at 10:49
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| Cynic Metalhead Ambrish Saxena Posts: 7564  |
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| Angelic Storm Melodious Posts: 6675 |
Written by Oaken on 24.03.2012 at 18:55 I'm glad I made you think about it, and it's great that I've changed your mind about athiests. Even though I didn't imagine that I'd be able to do that. lol I think it is healthy for every religious person to question their religion. Particularly if they were indoctrinated into it at an early age, and were brought up in a country where disbelievers are looked down upon and treated harshly. You are entitled to your beliefs, and I respect your right to practice your religion. @AngelofDeth: The problem in the US, is the fundamentalist christian right has a lot of sway in that country. Not to mention that there is a very real problem of church interfering with state and political policies. I think any time a religion is oppressing or attempting to oppress non-religious people, then they are fair game for criticsm and attack by non-religious people.
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| Slayer666 Posts: 2466 |
Written by X-Ray Rod on 25.03.2012 at 18:14 What? Hell no. That's the definition of having no mind of your own.
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| X-Ray Rod Skandino Staff Posts: 18374 |
Written by Slayer666 on 26.03.2012 at 00:01 In that case, consider yourself happy that you grew up with not so stupid or bipolar people around you.
---- Written by BloodTears on 19.08.2011 at 18:29 Written by Milena on 20.06.2012 at 10:49
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| R'Vannith ghedengi Elite Posts: 3099 |
Written by Angelic Storm on 25.03.2012 at 22:25 They're fair game any time. As are non-religious people. Though there are ways about going on the 'attack' which don't infringe upon one's right to express their own beliefs which need to be upheld. No point relentlessly oppressing those of a differing belief in ways that are unnecessary and bring about violent conflict, that'll get you nowhere.
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| Angelic Storm Melodious Posts: 6675 |
Written by R'Vannith on 26.03.2012 at 04:16 Well, a problem with a lot of religious people, is they feel like they should be allowed free reign to criticise people of different religions, and people without a religion. Whilst feeling that they should be granted immunity from any criticsm whatsoever. They want the right to criticise others, but then want to deny others the right to criticise them. I think one of the reasons why Islam has become increasingly viewed in a negative light by westerners, is because many Islamic countries have tyrannical regimes that virtually enforces the religion of Islam onto it's people. To be a non-Muslim in certain Islamic countries is tantamount to dancing with death. I think this is also why Christianity is so disliked by many people. People in certain parts of the world used to be forced into the Christian faith, or face execution. And there are a lot of Christians in politics around the world now who would likely take us back to those days if given half a chance.
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| R'Vannith ghedengi Elite Posts: 3099 |
Written by Angelic Storm on 26.03.2012 at 09:25 I agree, in most cases religions preach tolerance but rarely is it exercised in such a way that allows for a continuing and open dialogue between those of religious dispositions and those without such. Mostly it seems like they take the defensive whenever attacked and don't respect the right of those without belief in religion to do likewise. I'm of the opinion that this comes from some notion that they 'have' something which atheists and the like do not; that because atheists don't have 'faith' as religious people would view it then surely there is no grounds for them to defend themselves.
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| Dane Train Beers & Kilts Elite Posts: 8902  |
"I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ." - Mahatma Gandhi
---- (space for rent)
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| Troy Killjoy perfunctionist Staff Posts: 21306 |
Written by Dane Train on 27.03.2012 at 18:34 Fantastic quote and thread winner.
---- "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something."
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| X-Ray Rod Skandino Staff Posts: 18374 |
Written by Dane Train on 27.03.2012 at 18:34 Thread over. Thanks. Also... "Christ" and "Christians" can be exchanged with other profets and their respective religions. Which makes the quote even better.
---- Written by BloodTears on 19.08.2011 at 18:29 Written by Milena on 20.06.2012 at 10:49
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| Oaken Hipster Posts: 1322 |
Written by Slayer666 on 25.03.2012 at 13:48 I'm a crazy person and I know it. Written by Angelic Storm on 25.03.2012 at 22:25 As I respect your right to not believe in God. It's not my right to criticize your beliefs. What I do is bringing up my facts (Or fact fragments ) and trying to convince people. It doesn't matter if I fail or not. As for the other point, Islam says that a person shouldn't follow the path laid by his parents. He must look for the truth. So every non-Muslim must question his religion and search for the truth. Why shouldn't Muslims question their religion? Therefore, I try to question my religion and test it. Thus far, I found no flaws that are fatal in my eyes, and stuff that people think to be flaws I've been able to disprove. Written by Angelic Storm on 25.03.2012 at 22:25 I don't have anything against anyone. Most of my friends are atheists, and I don't care. Problem is, two of those atheists gave me a very bad idea about atheistic people. One of them thinks that he's 8955 years old (I SWEAR HE SAYS IT! HE'S MAD!) and his skepticism goes as far as questioning if a black wall was white. The other is a guy who cares about nothing but masturbation, porn and drinking. Most importantly, he says that the veil that Muslim women wear on their heads is "a trash bag". Of course, it is extremely stupid and insolent to judge atheists by two lame examples, but actually this image gets automatically printed into my mind. I meet those guys daily in school. On the other hand, I have a friend who believes in God, but gives no fuck at religion (Kind of close to Atheism, as he believes for just the sake of believing). TBH, he's one of the most moral persons I've ever seen. He really gives the bright image of atheists, and I really respect him a lot and I'm happy to have him as a friend. As a matter of fact, he's more moral than 90% Muslim kids in the school. Written by Dane Train on 27.03.2012 at 18:34 The problem lies in the people who follow a religion, not the religion itself. Most religion make sense when they're viewed away from the actions of their followers. It's these actions that destroy religion. I pointed this out before but apparently it was misunderstood. Great post, and thanks for 'cooling' down this thread. My deep thinking about what to write here is going to make me fail my school year. I can't focus on my studies!!
---- In that case, man is only air as well.
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| X-Ray Rod Skandino Staff Posts: 18374 |
Written by Oaken on 27.03.2012 at 23:16 I'm sorry but you are using the word "atheism" plain wrong. Your friend isn't atheist and doesn't have ANYTHING to do with atheism AT ALL. If you say he believes in God but does not follow any religion then he's just a theist. Nothing more. NOT an atheist or related to atheism at all. Believing in god but About the other two guys, if you let them influece your opinion of atheists.... You are no better than any person who thinks all muslims are terrorist. No difference at all. Don't draw conclusions just because you had bad experiences.
---- Written by BloodTears on 19.08.2011 at 18:29 Written by Milena on 20.06.2012 at 10:49
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| Oaken Hipster Posts: 1322 |
Written by X-Ray Rod on 27.03.2012 at 23:38 Well, but I kind of suspect the first guy is a hypocrite, so that's why I say he MIGHT be an atheist. And I personally stopped using the other two guys as atheist role-models. But its quite normal to have such an image AUTOMATICALLY printed into your mind when you keep seeing these guys daily.
---- In that case, man is only air as well.
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