In short, now that I'm double checking, no, I'm not.

If you click on "see all" here, you'll see that the Ersedu Facebook page was originally called Xes Dreams, and they changed the name: https://www.facebook.com/erseduband/about_profile_transparency

and the album NC-17 was released by both bands

Ignea here says they have had a ten-year long friendship with Ersedu, but if Ersedu were founded in 2020, how could they have had a ten year long friendship? https://ignea.bandcamp.com/album/bestia And they did a collab with them Xes Dreams in 2017: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDDe7shMRvA

Nevertheless, I can't find any sources that actually link the two bands together explicitly. I messaged them on Facebook, for confirmation, so I'm awaiting their response. Hold off for now.

Edit 2: I got confirmation. They are in fact related.

Edit1: And sorry I forgot to back up the Avenged Sevenfold style request with sources:

Melodic Metalcore: https://youtube.com/watch?v=36stRPPIy2w&list=PLnW3GgCEJi4Y-VxvR1j5KVqtmAYt2YfGy&index=1
(although tbf, there's a lot of heavy metal proper on this album, too, but maybe not enough to justify mentioning)

Heavy Metal: https:youtube.com/watch?v=cenXGf2Vt5M&list=PL6ogdCG3tAWh_4EkCGmp6z0MBhAYFAUtz&index=0\

Alternative Metal (and I'll note here that I don't consider Nightmare an alternative metal album, but most others do - for me it's only their eponymous that deserves the alt metal, but I think the timeline I gave is fair [although now that I'm listening to the cringe/borefest that is the eponymous, I actually feel only some of it is truly alt metal (like Scream) - most is more groove/metalcore-influneced heavy metal, but most others think it's an alt metal album] - I'll let you decide where/if to have alternative metal but it shouldn't go past 2012): https://youtube.com/watch?v=9IOrTjTPeIk&list=PLWxGix9YIPj01WE6icDfEZEtNakSM68Tz&index=2

Progressive Metal: https://youtube.com/watch?v=4KD_JxmmPgg&list=PLGN96WAC2Fv2DNdIbAHQsGVO3IxNawtu4&index=10

Avant-garde Metal (again this new album is why I'm requesting this style update entirely as it has nothing to with heavy metal, whereas The Stage has nothing to do with alternative metal): https://youtube.com/watch?v=U2Hw4Ipu7eA&list=PLxA687tYuMWhOiau-ePBBnRUZMfW5J-Vk&index=3

For Vintersea, I'm unsure about thieir debut album, as I've never heard it, but their second and third album, at least, they are 100% progressive melodic black metal. For that reason I would recommend giving them the styles "melodic black metal" and "extreme progressive metal," instead of their current ones.

Written by Guest on 10.06.2023 at 03:28

For Vintersea, they are 100% progressive melodic black metal.

No they're not. Except for some black metal shrieks here and there, there's not much black metal in their music. The tags are just fine.

Written by Nejde on 10.06.2023 at 12:05

Except for some black metal shrieks here and there, there's not much black metal in their music. The tags are just fine.

To be fair, I added the extreme progressive tag shortly after bardberic's post - before that it was just progressive metal.
However, I refrained from adding black metal as I completely agree with you: melodic black would be misleading, there's much more melodeath than melo-black in the last two albums.

Okay if that's how you feel

sorry to bother

There's one more band here I think desperately needs a "style" update here, and I've been holding off on this onejust to think about it. This one is a quite contentious band, due to their unique sound, but I think most people agree that the current style assignment is incorrect.

Avatar is currently listed as Melodic Death metal 2001-2009 and Nu Metal 2012-present; however, I grossly disagree with the Nu Metal tag, and on several of the band's albums here, people have commented on their disagreement with the style, as well. They never really stopped playing melodic death metal, but they added various influence on top of this style, as well. They are heavily rooted in Gothenburg style Melodeath, and heavily incorporate Groove Metal riffs into their sound. While I would say their early career was Gothenburg Metal, their two most recent albums took a more international Melodic Death Metal approach, and their mid-career could go either way. Do note that this band IS indeed from Gothenburg, Sweden, proper, where the "Gothenburg" style developed after all. And while their newest album is not really a melodeath/Gothenburg album, I expect the band would return to that style in the future, since every album is so vastly different from the last, and this one still has plenty of melodeath elements. They are quite eclectic and experimental in their sound, especially during their three albums between 2014-2018, and many people would call them "Avant-garde." I also commonly hear them referred to as "Alternative Metal," although this tag is a bit misleading, in my opinion, yet I'm still inclined to agree with it. Regarding the "avant-garde" elements I pointed out earlier; I wouldn't call them straight up "Avant-garde Metal," as they are hardly comparable to other avant-garde metal bands due to how melodic and accessible their sound is, similar to the new Avenged Sevenfold album. And note how I stated they incorporate groove metal "riffs" into their sound. When they get into Groove Metal territory, it's not usually straightforward Pantera-esque groove metal, but their groove metal riffs basically serve as the foundation for their more experimental tendencies, whereas their melodeath tends to be a bit more straightforward. In this regard, I would use the term "Avant-garde Groove Metal" to describe this element of their sound. However, I noticed that "Groove Metal" doesn't actually exist as a proper style on this site, and it is only a prefix, so using "Avant-garde" as a prefix for Groove Metal may be a problem (unless you don't think so). Thus I propose, instead "Groove Avantgarde Metal," since avantgarde metal is a proper style here.

Their 2012 and 2014 albums did indeed breach into Industrial and Nu Metal territory, here and there (covered by Alternative Metal), which is likely where the current style came from, but to call it entirely "Nu Metal" is entirely incorrect.

Edit: Upon revisiting their mid-career material, I would label it as solid Melodic Death Metal, instead of Gothenburg Metal. Their first three albums should be Gothenburg Metal, whereas their subsequent albums starting with Black Waltz should be Melodic Death Metal, and I stand firmly on this belief, actually. Although the melodeath they play is still yet heavily influenced by their Gothenburg roots.

Overall, I recommend them being tagged as:
2001-2011: Gothenburg Metal
2012-present: Melodic Death Metal
2012-present: Alternative Metal
2014-present: Groove Avantgarde Metal (unless you are able to do Avantgarde Groove Metal, which is preferable imo)

My main issue with keeping them as Melodic Death Metal is that "Melodic" is only a prefix, which means they will be grouped with Death Metal bands, otherwise, and they really aren't death metal until more recently, which is why, despite the pedantic nature of this change, I prefer Gothenburg. Honestly, their early career is 100% Gothenburg, with some Metalcore and later heavy metal elements, as well. Their mid-late career is much more Melodeath than Gothenburg, but their still rooted in Gothenburg Metal, which is why I prefer this term to be more accurate in their early career.

or

2001-present: Gothenburg Metal (or if you don't want to change it, Melodic Death Metal works, too)
2012-present: Alternative Metal
2014-present: Groove Metal
2014-present: Avantgarde Metal

to keep it simple (but again, I think this second one may be a bit misleading).

for Gothenburg Metal in their early career: https://youtube.com/watch?v=nLKSczE_Vwo&list=PL6ogdCG3tAWgIzmwkrD43rP75XpgCGr90&index=3 (note the metalcore influence, here as well)
https://youtube.com/watch?v=hCvpFbu9n14&list=OLAK5uy_nhhG1ZNUVtaIG4m_b7Q0bR1hHh6mVC38g (note the heavy metal influence here, too)

For Melodic Death Metal/Gothenburg in their mid career:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=pqDnFUWzftk
https://youtube.com/watch?v=XTqZLxuPCAw (note how there is some heavy metal and alternative metal on this one)
[yes these are currently labeled as Nu Metal, see the problem with that?]

For Melodic Death Metal in their later career: https://youtube.com/watch?v=PGnki7qozf8

For Alternative Metal:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=yFvl4uhtkFI (note how there's considerable industrial metal, here)
https://youtube.com/watch?v=b_cHOXYkC3U
https://youtube.com/watch?v=TlLN132Agww (note how this one still has melodic death metal riffs and even dome groove metal riffs, despite being a more alternative metal style)
https://youtube.com/watch?v=jw-2enpQj4A&list=OLAK5uy_kc0xtqRQUlUZXPFNI_HFis2JrOiCkM-K8&index=6 (note the avantgarde/groove metal, on this one, as well)

For Avant-garde/Groove Metal:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=4p6GWewmTYQ
https://youtube.com/watch?v=1cj3gKthKzA
https://youtube.com/watch?v=23KSUzt4tiw (note the alternative metal here, too)

^ he went wiki over the genre tag misrepresentation.

Written by Guest on 01.07.2023 at 03:35

for Gothenburg Metal in their early career: https://youtube.com/watch?v=nLKSczE_Vwo&list=PL6ogdCG3tAWgIzmwkrD43rP75XpgCGr90&index=3 (note the metalcore influence, here as well)
https://youtube.com/watch?v=hCvpFbu9n14&list=OLAK5uy_nhhG1ZNUVtaIG4m_b7Q0bR1hHh6mVC38g (note the heavy metal influence here, too)

For Melodic Death Metal/Gothenburg in their mid career:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=pqDnFUWzftk
https://youtube.com/watch?v=XTqZLxuPCAw (note how there is some heavy metal and alternative metal on this one)
[yes these are currently labeled as Nu Metal, see the problem with that?]

For Melodic Death Metal in their later career: https://youtube.com/watch?v=PGnki7qozf8

For Alternative Metal:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=yFvl4uhtkFI (note how there's considerable industrial metal, here)
https://youtube.com/watch?v=b_cHOXYkC3U
https://youtube.com/watch?v=TlLN132Agww (note how this one still has melodic death metal riffs and even dome groove metal riffs, despite being a more alternative metal style)
https://youtube.com/watch?v=jw-2enpQj4A&list=OLAK5uy_kc0xtqRQUlUZXPFNI_HFis2JrOiCkM-K8&index=6 (note the avantgarde/groove metal, on this one, as well)

For Avant-garde/Groove Metal:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=4p6GWewmTYQ
https://youtube.com/watch?v=1cj3gKthKzA
https://youtube.com/watch?v=23KSUzt4tiw (note the alternative metal here, too)

I actually took the time to listen to the songs you've linked and looking around the www to see what they're labeled as. I found death, industrial, progressive, avant-garde, heavy, groove and even experimental. What I didn't find was somewhere they're called alternative. Sure, there's a little bit of everything in their music and they certainly don't release the same-sounding album twice. But something they're not is avant-garde, considering what is actually considered avant-garde here on Metal Storm. There's nothing uniquely avant-garde about their music or their song structures. Just look at the bands that are tagged with avant-garde in our database and you will clearly see that this is no place for Avatar.

This is a band that's really hard categorize but when mixing all different genres you still end up with something that can be considered a nu-metal sound. Hell, Slipknot are labeled as nu-metal/alternative, and not only here on MS. And if Slipknot is nu-, then I dare to say that Avatar is too. Thus nu-metal sums up their mash-up of genres pretty fine imo.

And I don't wanna be rude, but for someone who claimed that Vintersea is "100% progressive melodic black metal", I think you need to chill a bit with these "mislabeled" bands.
Maybe check for bands that actually are mislabeled, like a black metal band being tagged as power metal for example.

I mean Vintersea is a mix of melodic black and melodic death metal, but my point was more to get them to get changed to extreme progressive metal over just progressive metal - to deny them of any black elements is incorrect, as well. The band is frequently referred to as both melodic death and melodic black metal. I prefer black, but if the people here prefer death, that's fine whatever. I don't know where you're going to look at Avatar, but everywhere I go they're labeled as either Alternative Metal, Melodic Death Metal, and/or Groove Metal, with Groove Metal probably being the most prevalent (even though I think that's a misleading tag) and most people consider them Avant-garde metal, too. If you read my whole post, you'll see I addressed that they're not really avant-garde metal, but their fusion of groove riffing and experimental structures warrants an avant-garde tag. I mentioned that I'd have rather seen them tagged as avant-garde groove metal, but that's likely not possible since we're dealing with two prefixes, here. If groove metal were a proper genre here, that's what I'd recommend. But since only avant-garde metal is, this is what we have to work with. The fact that you would rather see them labeled as nu metal, even though I've never seen them tagged as such, and you think this song
https://youtube.com/watch?v=ABtzi0xaebs
has any resemblance to this song
https://youtube.com/watch?v=eVTXPUF4Oz4
to warrant the same genres shows that maybe you need to chill out a bit on what you think is not mislabeled. If anything the top song is power metal. While it's true they have a sort of System of a Down energy, that's all the ties to nu metal this song has (although I wouldn't call System of a Down really nu metal, more alternative metal [kinda like Avatar... hmmmm])

Nu Metal means the music is not rooted in traditional metal, such that it does not come from the same lineage as the classic metal bands from 80s do. This is why metal elitists reject nu metal as a true form of metal. If you pay attention to all the links I provided above, you'll see that Avatar is absolutely rooted in traditional metal - that's what Gothenburg Metal is; death metal riffing played like traditional heavy metal. Their 2016 and 2018 albums in particular were throwback albums to the 80s, actually, such that they imitate the traditional metal from back then.

Furthermore, Slipknot WAS Nu Metal on their first three albums - they're literally a pioneering band of the genre. In their later career, they became more alternative metal, imo opinion, but some of the nu metal elements remain even today. I've never heard them called anything OTHER than nu metal for their early career, except thrash metal, which the band themselves call themselves, and alternative metal which I suppose is fair, too. Outside of Metalstorm and previously Encyclopedia Metallum, I've never seen Avatar once been labeled as Nu Metal, and I don't thinik anyone actually DOES consider them nu metal. Nevertheless, this isn't about Slipknot, this is about Avatar, so I won't get into how Slipknot is nu metal, here, because I'm focusing on Avatar right now.

You want to see them labeled as Avant-garde Metal; challenge accepted:
Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feathers_%26_Flesh
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avatar_(band) (under musical style and influence -> heavy metal [opposite of nu metal], groove metal, and melodic death metal [like I suggested], and "moving to a more avant-garde metal style," as I mentioned, too])
Musicbrainz: https://musicbrainz.org/artist/a8d77515-f7b7-4d71-9646-8446a3b2a341
Ah, perfect I just found this one calling them "groovy avant-garde metal and melodic death metal," just like I proposed here: https://www.graspop.be/en/bands/avatar
Loudwire: https://loudwire.com/avatar-feathers-and-flesh-album-for-the-swarm-video/
Voted as a secondary (basically in line with my prefix "avantgarde" on groove metal) on RYM here: https://rateyourmusic.com/release/album/avatar/feathers-and-flesh/

Back when the Encylopedia Metallum had them listed as "Nu Metal," here's a plethora of reports calling them "avant-garde:"
https://www.metal-archives.com/report/view/id/775181
https://www.metal-archives.com/report/view/id/733738
https://www.metal-archives.com/report/view/id/732119
https://www.metal-archives.com/report/view/id/722825
https://www.metal-archives.com/report/view/id/672439
https://www.metal-archives.com/report/view/id/632230
https://www.metal-archives.com/report/view/id/621790
and if you look at all the reports contesting their listing as nu metal there, you'll see that there are like ten more or so that just simply reject the nu metal label, with the majority of them calling them groove metal instead:
https://www.metal-archives.com/report/by-object/type/band/id/24596/mode/page

Metalstorm, read the third comment here: https://metalstorm.net/bands/album.php?album_id=92902&band_id=895&bandname=Avatar
On this very topic in this forum, it's been recommended in the past to call them avant-garde metal, here:

Written by atrox on 17.01.2018 at 00:18

I suggest changing genre of Avatar to avant-garde metal since 2012 - they are definitely not nu-metal. Genres of the latest releases can be checked from Wikipedia as a support for the idea of them doing rather avant-garde. Thanks.

If you don't want them in avant-garde metal, that's fine, but that's not to say that means they should be in nu metal. Nu metal is even worse than avant-garde metal. Just get them the hell out of nu metal and put them in groove metal, then. The common theme with my sources being that NOBODY considers them nu metal.

As for alternative metal, as I stated I don't think it's really alternative metal, but there aren't a lot of other ways to describe them. Universally, however, I see them tagged as alternative metal. And I'm inclined to agree that the alt metal elements are there, if not unconventionally. For years, though, I did reject the alt metal label for them, but it grew on me, and I do to a certain degree agree with it, nowadays, and that's largely due to their "System of a Down" energy that I pointed out above. It also helps that they have some songs like this: https://youtube.com/watch?v=b_cHOXYkC3U, which I linked above, but as for others' opinions on this matter:

Encyclopedia Metallum - after they changed the band's tag from "Nu Metal" to "Metalcore/Alternative Metal" (and I think you'll agree the "metalcore" is BS): https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Avatar/24596
Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hail_the_Apocalypse
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Waltz
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feathers_%26_Flesh
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avatar_Country
Musicbrainz: https://musicbrainz.org/artist/a8d77515-f7b7-4d71-9646-8446a3b2a341
Metalmusicarchvies: https://www.metalmusicarchives.com/artist/avatar(sweden)/?ac=avatar
RYM:
https://rateyourmusic.com/release/album/avatar/black-waltz/
https://rateyourmusic.com/release/album/avatar/hail-the-apocalypse/
https://rateyourmusic.com/release/album/avatar/feathers-and-flesh/
https://rateyourmusic.com/release/album/avatar/avatar-country/
https://rateyourmusic.com/release/album/avatar/hunter-gatherer/
https://rateyourmusic.com/release/album/avatar/dance-devil-dance/

Furthermore, on this site people have contested their tag as "nu metal," read all the comments here:
https://metalstorm.net/bands/album.php?album_id=88164&band_id=895&bandname=Avatar
and the rest of them here:
https://metalstorm.net/bands/album.php?album_id=92902&band_id=895&bandname=Avatar

and in this forum topic earlier:

Written by atrox on 24.01.2018 at 12:35

Okay, I understand that I have to still refer to something to get Avatar away from nu-metal categorization

Black Waltz review at https://www.sputnikmusic.com/review/47962/Avatar-Black-Waltz/ - "... Doesn't matter whether Avatar are playing more death metal influenced tunes, rockers or avant-garde stuff , they are equally adept at them all. ..."

Hail the Apocalypse intro at https://www.allmusic.com/album/hail-the-apocalypse-mw0002644493 - "... Swedish death/industrial/progressive metal ensemble ... stirs up a flurry of sonic brutality that blends the streamlined, piston-like pump of Rammstein, the provocative and uncompromising metallic charge of System of a Down, and the macabre theatrics of Marilyn Manson and Alice Cooper."

Avatar Country review at https://emperorcupcake.com/2018/01/13/album-review-avatar-avatar-country/ - "Genre: Prog/Groove Metal"
And something that very well summarizes the musical contents of the album and what is typically referred to as "avant-garde": "... there will be plenty of genres. Between folk, hard rock, country, electronica, symphonic metal, and a whole smorgasbord of others, Avatar Country never sticks with a sounds long enough for the record to gain any momentum."

If you pay attention to all these sources, and if you read more of the Metallum reports contesting their label as Nu Metal in the past, you see that Groove Metal is always listed. It's probably the most consistent tag the band has gotten, so groove metal is a given, at this point.

This proposition was not hasty (unlike the Vintersea change I proposed, and I regret the wording "100%" that I used, as my intention was to point that they're not really progressive metal but progressive extreme metal - that one took 30 seconds). I have been listening to this band for about ten years, now, so I'm very familiar with their discography. I've analyzed them thoroughly, and I mean several hours of listening, so I could choose appropriate genres on my own personal music library for each song. I've been keeping up in the news about them, so I may catch a live show, if they ever came to Israel, so I've see what the media calls them frequently. I thought through this one very carefully, and have taken into consideration what their fanbase also considers them.

And not once have I ever seen them called straight up "nu metal." I HAVE seen people identify that they have "shades" of nu metal or utilize elements of nu metal, and I agree with this; it's a small part of their sound in 2014 and 2016. To be fair, this album on RYM has nu metal as a secondary, which is accurate: https://rateyourmusic.com/release/album/avatar/hail-the-apocalypse/, and this song here: https://youtube.com/watch?v=qYzR1fMJHvk may parallel a System of a Down song, but that's as far as the "nu metal" goes; after 2016, they never touched entered this realm again, even remotely and during the two albums they explored it a little bit, it was only minor component of the sound and does not represent the band at all. It is like calling Slayer a death metal band because on a few of their albums they explored death metal undertones, despite them clearly being a thrash metal band. And power metal during this "nu metal" period was even more of a an influence than nu metal - if you had to go with one incorrect tag, power metal is the way to go. I've seen more people call Avatar a power metal band than a nu metal band. The confusion here is that they play groove metal riffs with experimentation that is not normally heard within groove metal, as I mentioned above. In a similar, but unrelated way, Nu Metal plays groove metal riffs, but incorporates a certain kind of energy and elements not normally associated with metal music - this is likely this site, and the Encyclopedia Metallum called the band nu metal; but as I, and as most other people it seem have pointed out, avant-garde groove metal is a more accurate assessment of the band, as they are a completely different scene with completely different goals.

You claim that I should focus on bands that are "actually mislabeled, like black metal as power metal" or whatever, But I mean this band being called nu metal is just as bad as a power metal band being labeled black metal or vice versa. That comment does come across as awfully patronizing, to be honest, and the reason I'm suggesting this change is that it is horribly misleading - they are "actually mislabeled." If this is not mislabeled then I don't know what the hell is. Sorry you disagreed with the Vintersea change, but that has nothing to do with this one.

So let the staff of the site take this data, listen to the band, and make a well calculated decision. If you want to be petty, I can be petty right back.

Written by Guest on 02.07.2023 at 19:49

...

First of all, Metal Archives is not considered a reliable source here on MS and band edits submitted with MA as a source are more often rejected than not. Therefore, users are also adviced to not use MA as a source.

I don't understand why people all over the internet are labeling Avatar as avant-garde. Just because you're changing style with every new album doesn't automatically make your band avant-garde.
Netzach (staff member) has said and I quote him: "Progressive is using conventional elements in unconventional ways, avant-garde is using unconventional elements in conventional ways. At least that's how I've always thought of it."
I actually think that he's correct in that analyzis. And honestly, I don't think Avatar is doing either. They're just mixing several genres which also is a skill, but not avant-garde.

Just read the Characteristics and fashion section about nu metal on Wikipedia and you'll see that it fits quite well with a lot Avatar's music. And I just needed one link to get my point through.

Written by Guest on 02.07.2023 at 19:49

...

Also, writing all that, trying to emphasize that you're right and forcing that opinion on others just makes you look like a know-it-all. Try showing some humility. Just because you think a band should be labeled a certain way doesn't mean it's right, just as I'm not right saying they're nu-metal. I was just saying that nu-metal is a valid genre tag as much as anything else.

Wow. It looks like genres are hard.

Written by Nejde on 02.07.2023 at 21:13

Written by Guest on 02.07.2023 at 19:49

...

First of all, Metal Archives is not considered a reliable source here on MS and band edits submitted with MA as a source are more often rejected than not. Therefore, users are also adviced to not use MA as a source.

I don't understand why people all over the internet are labeling Avatar as avant-garde. Just because you're changing style with every new album doesn't automatically make your band avant-garde.
Netzach (staff member) has said and I quote him: "Progressive is using conventional elements in unconventional ways, avant-garde is using unconventional elements in conventional ways. At least that's how I've always thought of it."
I actually think that he's correct in that analyzis. And honestly, I don't think Avatar is doing either. They're just mixing several genres which also is a skill, but not avant-garde.

Just read the Characteristics and fashion section about nu metal on Wikipedia and you'll see that it fits quite well with a lot Avatar's music. And I just needed one link to get my point through.

Then scrap the Metal Archives link (the reports from there are still useful because are users of the site not the site itself), there's still a ton of evidence otherwise. Tbf, I'm not a huge fan of the Alternative label myself. This is just what other people have called them. Just as you reject the Metallum sources, and frankly I agree that the Encyclopedia Metallum is a horrible resource, there's a reason I moved from there to here. Regarding the description you provided, I'll break it down:

"Nu metal is heavily syncopated and is based mostly on guitar riffs." -> this is characteristic of groove metal; as I mentioned above Nu metal is based on Groove metal riffs which is why it shares those foundations - the band is syncopated and riffy because of their groove metal tendencies

"Mid-song bridges and a general lack of guitar solos contrasts it with other genres of heavy metal." -> that's alternative metal, sludge metal, avant-garde metal; really anything that isn't traditional metal (as they say it contrasts heavy metal). Also, have you actually listened to Avatar? They solo in most songs. This doesn't describe the band, entirely. They're very traditional sounding. They sometimes have mid-song bridges (again, sometimes), but this is due to their alternative metal and avant-garde metal leanings, for example at 1:45 seconds here a total avant-garde metal bridge: https://youtube.com/watch?v=xNJG0BVKZbQ

"emphasis on rhythm, rather than on complexity or mood," -> does not describe Avatar; Avatar emphasizes hummable melodies first and foremost. Also, classic death metal, hardcore punk, hip-hop, funk, etc. are rhythmic. Not a trait solely of nu metal.

"Nu metal bassists and drummers are often influenced by funk and hip hop" -> does not even remotely describe Avatar (except for their one funky song, King After King)

"Blast beats, which are common in heavy metal subgenres such as black metal and death metal, are extremely rare in nu metal." -> Avatar frequently uses blast beats in their more abrasive songs: https://youtube.com/watch?v=OsjDXdpTGE0

"nu metal guitarists took the sounds of "violence and destruction" to new levels with their overdriven guitar tone" -> Avatar's guitar is as clean and traditional as it gets. Complete opposite of this band, actually: https://youtube.com/watch?v=QMiKmj4iCEo

"Vocal styles used in nu metal music include singing,[18] rapping,[24][32] screaming[21][32] and growling." -> Avatar has never once rapped. Not even once. singing, screaming, and growling are characteristic of pretty much every style of metal, otherwise.

"Vocals in nu metal are often rhythmic and influenced by hip hop." -> Avatar's vocals are the about as melodic as they can get. There are no hip-hop elements whatsoever. They are a metal/rock band through and through. Nothing rhythmic about their vocals at all.

"Lyrics in nu metal songs are often angry or nihilistic" -> Avatar is silly and fun, the opposite of angry and nihilistic

"Nu metal clothing typically consists of baggy pants,[25][58][59][60] shirts, and shorts,[24][61] JNCO jeans,[62][63] Adidas tracksuits,[63] sports jerseys,[64] baseball caps,[65] baggy hoodies,[60] cargo pants, and sweatpants." -> https://www.sparkshop.cz/data/22809/titulb.jpg

Thanks for proving that Avatar is in fact NOT nu metal, according to Wikipedia's standards.

Regarding the avant-garde metal; it's because they're experimental and "avant-garde." The clapping in this song, for example, is not a normal clapping of the hands, but one of the band members clapped his buttox cheeks: https://youtube.com/watch?v=yMrCqVJ09M8, for example, and the fact that the band calls themselves a "circus freak show," because their sound often incorporates circus sounds, not too far off from Unexpect. It has nothing to do with their "style changes." but rather their eclecticism and pseudo-progressive tendencies. I agree that avant-garde should be a prefix, as I mentioned above, but as I also mentioned, as a genre it is maybe a bit miseading. If groove metal weren't already a prefix, avant-garde groove metal would work perfectly. Perhaps avant-garde alternative metal or avant-garde gothenburg metal works? Or scrapping it, too if needed if fine. Just getting rid of nu metal is my prerogative, here.

Dude, why are you being so petty about this? Really. You don't need to argue this change for the sake of arguing a change. Your wasting my time and your own. Fact of the matter is, and I can speak for this entire band's fanbase, nobody considers them nu metal. If you disagree with avant-garde metal and alternative metal, that's fair. At that point, simply calling them groove metal works. But that doesn't paint the whole story. And Nu Metal paints an incorrect picture of the band. Not even misleading. Just straight up false, if we're using the Wikipedia definition of nu metal you provided.

Written by Nejde on 02.07.2023 at 21:24

Written by Guest on 02.07.2023 at 19:49

...

Also, writing all that, trying to emphasize that you're right and forcing that opinion on others just makes you look like a know-it-all. Try showing some humility. Just because you think a band should be labeled a certain way doesn't mean it's right, just as I'm not right saying they're nu-metal. I was just saying that nu-metal is a valid genre tag as much as anything else.

Dude, I'm not trying to force an opinion on you. I came in very polite and humble, but you threw the first jabs at me:

Written by Nejde on 02.07.2023 at 11:18
And I don't wanna be rude, but for someone who claimed that Vintersea is "100% progressive melodic black metal", I think you need to chill a bit with these "mislabeled" bands.
Maybe check for bands that actually are mislabeled, like a black metal band being tagged as power metal for example.

You showed no humility in those comments, and I am reacting based on those patronizing statements you made. I literally responded to your contestation with Vintersea with "Okay fine if that's how you feel, sorry to bother;" yet you're still that proposal to downplay this current, unrelated submission.

Am I not supposed to make convincing arguments to support a change I'm trying to pass? I'm simply providing evidence to support this case. It seems you're the one trying to force your opinion on me by dismissing the evidence I have provided, thus I keep providing more.

Written by Guest on 02.07.2023 at 21:56

Your wasting my time and your own.

Wait, ..... let me scroll up in this thread quite a bit and check who seems to be wasting whose time in the first place.

Dude, you should be happy that you receive a reply here from staff at all.

Why this guy 'bardberic' had severe desperation over the genres?

This baffles me. Also, one chronic headache to go all through it. I now need my ayurveda tea.

Written by Guest on 02.07.2023 at 21:56

"Nu metal is heavily syncopated and is based mostly on guitar riffs." -> this is characteristic of groove metal; as I mentioned above Nu metal is based on Groove metal riffs which is why it shares those foundations - the band is syncopated and riffy because of their groove metal tendencies

So nu metal is based on groove metal which you say they play, so in other words they can be considered a nu metal band too. Glad we got that clarified.

Written by Guest on 02.07.2023 at 21:56

"Mid-song bridges and a general lack of guitar solos contrasts it with other genres of heavy metal." -> that's alternative metal, sludge metal, avant-garde metal; really anything that isn't traditional metal (as they say it contrasts heavy metal). Also, have you actually listened to Avatar? They solo in most songs. This doesn't describe the band, entirely. They're very traditional sounding. They sometimes have mid-song bridges (again, sometimes), but this is due to their alternative metal and avant-garde metal leanings, for example at 1:45 seconds here a total avant-garde metal bridge: https://youtube.com/watch?v=xNJG0BVKZbQ

Carnival music is NOT the equivalent to avant-garde music. Nothing avant-garde about that song at all. Slowing down the pace and then speeding it up doesn't make it avant-garde either.

Written by Guest on 02.07.2023 at 21:56

"emphasis on rhythm, rather than on complexity or mood," -> does not describe Avatar; Avatar emphasizes hummable melodies first and foremost. Also, classic death metal, hardcore punk, hip-hop, funk, etc. are rhythmic. Not a trait solely of nu metal.

"Nu metal bassists and drummers are often influenced by funk and hip hop" -> does not even remotely describe Avatar (except for their one funky song, King After King)

"Blast beats, which are common in heavy metal subgenres such as black metal and death metal, are extremely rare in nu metal." -> Avatar frequently uses blast beats in their more abrasive songs: https://youtube.com/watch?v=OsjDXdpTGE0

"nu metal guitarists took the sounds of "violence and destruction" to new levels with their overdriven guitar tone" -> Avatar's guitar is as clean and traditional as it gets. Complete opposite of this band, actually: https://youtube.com/watch?v=QMiKmj4iCEo

"Vocal styles used in nu metal music include singing,[18] rapping,[24][32] screaming[21][32] and growling." -> Avatar has never once rapped. Not even once. singing, screaming, and growling are characteristic of pretty much every style of metal, otherwise.

"Vocals in nu metal are often rhythmic and influenced by hip hop." -> Avatar's vocals are the about as melodic as they can get. There are no hip-hop elements whatsoever. They are a metal/rock band through and through. Nothing rhythmic about their vocals at all.

"Lyrics in nu metal songs are often angry or nihilistic" -> Avatar is silly and fun, the opposite of angry and nihilistic

It says: "Bassists and drummers are often influenced..." meaning not always.

"Blast beats are extremely rare" meaning not totally absent. And you yourself wrote: "Frequently uses blast beats in their more abrasive songs" also meaning not always.

Godsmack is also labeled as nu-metal along with post-grunge, hard rock, alternative metal and heavy metal. Nothing of the above corresponds to them either. The haven't rapped or had rhythmic hip hop influenced vocals, never used overdriven guitar tones, never had angry or nihilistic lyrics but they're still labeled as partly nu metal.

Written by Guest on 02.07.2023 at 21:56

"Nu metal clothing typically consists of baggy pants,[25][58][59][60] shirts, and shorts,[24][61] JNCO jeans,[62][63] Adidas tracksuits,[63] sports jerseys,[64] baseball caps,[65] baggy hoodies,[60] cargo pants, and sweatpants." -> https://www.sparkshop.cz/data/22809/titulb.jpg

I wasn't referring to the actual fashion, just the name of the section, "Characteristics and fashion". But you deliberately left out this part: Some nu metal bands such as Motograter, Mushroomhead, Mudvayne, and Slipknot wear masks, jumpsuits, costumes, face paint, corpse paint or body paint. I would say Avatar falls under costumes and face paint if you wanna go there.

Written by Guest on 02.07.2023 at 21:56

Dude, why are you being so petty about this? Really. You don't need to argue this change for the sake of arguing a change. Your wasting my time and your own. Fact of the matter is, and I can speak for this entire band's fanbase, nobody considers them nu metal. If you disagree with avant-garde metal and alternative metal, that's fair. At that point, simply calling them groove metal works. But that doesn't paint the whole story. And Nu Metal paints an incorrect picture of the band. Not even misleading. Just straight up false, if we're using the Wikipedia definition of nu metal you provided.

I'm not petty at all. I responded because you came on really strong, declaring that you were right and more or less demanded their genre tags be changed to several different ones according to your firm opinion. And you're apparently speaking for everyone when you're claiming that "nobody considers them nu metal". You're not speaking on my behalf and I'm a part of "nobody".
The conclusion here is that you're claiming that Avatar is NOT a nu metal band at all, while I'm only saying that they can also be considered nu metal along with a heap of other genres. Hell, we can ask Yaniv who's responsible for the database to add carnival/clown music as a tag too if you want.

Haha. They guy got so upset that he deleted his account while I was responding to him. Well, enjoy my answers to him at least.

Written by Guest on 02.07.2023 at 19:49

https://youtube.com/watch?v=ABtzi0xaebs

https://youtube.com/watch?v=eVTXPUF4Oz4

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feathers_%26_Flesh
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avatar
https://musicbrainz.org/artist/a8d77515-f7b7-4d71-9646-8446a3b2a341 https://www.graspop.be/en/bands/avatar
https://loudwire.com/avatar-feathers-and-flesh-album-for-the-swarm-video/
https://rateyourmusic.com/release/album/avatar/feathers-and-flesh/

https://www.metal-archives.com/report/view/id/775181
https://www.metal-archives.com/report/view/id/733738
https://www.metal-archives.com/report/view/id/732119
https://www.metal-archives.com/report/view/id/722825
https://www.metal-archives.com/report/view/id/672439
https://www.metal-archives.com/report/view/id/632230
https://www.metal-archives.com/report/view/id/621790

https://www.metal-archives.com/report/by-object/type/band/id/24596/mode/page

https://metalstorm.net/bands/album.php?album_id=92902&band_id=895&bandname=Avatar

https://youtube.com/watch?v=b_cHOXYkC3U

https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Avatar/24596

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hail_the_Apocalypse
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Waltz
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feathers_%26_Flesh
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avatar_Country
https://musicbrainz.org/artist/a8d77515-f7b7-4d71-9646-8446a3b2a341
https://www.metalmusicarchives.com/artist/avatar(sweden)/?ac=avatar

https://rateyourmusic.com/release/album/avatar/black-waltz/
https://rateyourmusic.com/release/album/avatar/hail-the-apocalypse/
https://rateyourmusic.com/release/album/avatar/feathers-and-flesh/
https://rateyourmusic.com/release/album/avatar/avatar-country/
https://rateyourmusic.com/release/album/avatar/hunter-gatherer/
https://rateyourmusic.com/release/album/avatar/dance-devil-dance/

https://metalstorm.net/bands/album.php?album_id=88164&band_id=895&bandname=Avatar

https://metalstorm.net/bands/album.php?album_id=92902&band_id=895&bandname=Avatar

https://www.sputnikmusic.com/review/47962/Avatar-Black-Waltz/
https://www.allmusic.com/album/hail-the-apocalypse-mw0002644493
https://emperorcupcake.com/2018/01/13/album-review-avatar-avatar-country/

https://rateyourmusic.com/release/album/avatar/hail-the-apocalypse/
https://youtube.com/watch?v=qYzR1fMJHvk

I'm counting 37 links in one post (utterly ridiculous btw) and later posting:

Written by Guest on 02.07.2023 at 22:16

Am I not supposed to make convincing arguments to support a change I'm trying to pass? I'm simply providing evidence to support this case. It seems you're the one trying to force your opinion on me by dismissing the evidence I have provided, thus I keep providing more.

Who is trying to force the opinion on who here exactly?

This is a little disclaimer to those reporting mislabeled bands in the future:

Please just point out the band and the genre you think is wrong and we will check in to it. Thank you.

Maybe a nitpick, but why is Slugdge "blackened death/sludge", when other bands of this style (like Lord Mantis) have simply the style "blackened sludge"?

Written by F3ynman2000 on 03.07.2023 at 18:34

Maybe a nitpick, but why is Slugdge "blackened death/sludge", when other bands of this style (like Lord Mantis) have simply the style "blackened sludge"?

Can you please ask this question with 37 links. We need evidence. Thanks.

Jokes aside.

For me the difference is that Lord Mantis has a more black metal approach, especially in their vocal style, while Slugdge are leaning more to (old school) death metal in both riffing and vocals. If I were to change anything I would rather remove the blackened tag from Slugdge and just have sludge/death metal. But that is of course just my opinion. Don't know if this helped or made it worse

Written by Nejde on 03.07.2023 at 19:11

For me the difference is that Lord Mantis has a more black metal approach, especially in their vocal style, while Slugdge are leaning more to (old school) death metal in both riffing and vocals. If I were to change anything I would rather remove the blackened tag from Slugdge and just have sludge/death metal. But that is of course just my opinion. Don't know if this helped or made it worse

I agree with lists like this one by Apothecary and so would refer to them as blackened sludge, but it's no big deal. Was just wondering what people think of them. It's true that there is little black, but it's more melodic than death, I'd say

Written by Guest on 03.07.2023 at 20:12

I swear people call this sludge only because of the similarity with the band's name. There's so little (if any) sludge in their sound. Maybe a little in their debut.

It would indeed just feel wrong to not call a band named Slugdge sludge!

Written by Guest on 03.07.2023 at 20:39

Written by F3ynman2000 on 03.07.2023 at 20:28

it's more melodic than death, I'd say

That's where the progressive metal influence knucks in

Yeah so now the genre should be progressive death / blackened sludge

Written by F3ynman2000 on 03.07.2023 at 20:28

Written by Nejde on 03.07.2023 at 19:11

For me the difference is that Lord Mantis has a more black metal approach, especially in their vocal style, while Slugdge are leaning more to (old school) death metal in both riffing and vocals. If I were to change anything I would rather remove the blackened tag from Slugdge and just have sludge/death metal. But that is of course just my opinion. Don't know if this helped or made it worse

I agree with lists like this one by Apothecary and so would refer to them as blackened sludge, Was just wondering what people think of them.

Deja vu triple of times, for me.

We have seen people throwing genre miscategorization javelins on each other before it loped into a strenuous back-and-forth discussion. For a record, check out Apoth's list which you linked -- see 5 pages of inclusion of bands over a "genre misrepresentation".

Written by F3ynman2000 on 03.07.2023 at 20:43

Yeah so now the genre should be progressive death / blackened sludge

It should just be slugdge metal

Written by Cynic Metalhead on 03.07.2023 at 20:52

Deja vu triple of times, for me.

We have seen people throwing genre miscategorization javelins on each other before it loped into a strenuous back-and-forth discussion. For a record, check out Apoth's list which you linked -- see 5 pages of inclusion of bands over a "genre misrepresentation".

Hey, thanks for pointing those 5 pages of comments out! It was cool reading everyone's suggestions... and the vivid descriptions have caused me to add a lot of them to my checklist! Got something to look forward to

The new Heafodban album is folk / drone, no metal to be found here

I just added a bunch of Moonblood releases that were missing and most of them don't have a genre tag, as they were released after the band split up