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Alternative Ancient History



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25.06.2024 - 01:13
F3ynman
Nocturnal Bro
Contributor
For the last year or so I've been delving into really interesting alternative history theories about ancient civilizations.

If you have an open mind and are interested in uncovering the truth of our distant past, keep reading!

The two theories that interest me the most are:

1. There was an ancient civilization that was far older and far more advanced than mainstream archeologists believe.

2. Ancient myths, deities, and astrology practices are based on actual events that ancient peoples witnessed. (popularly called the Ancient Alien theory)




Some info for the Ancient Advanced Civilization Theory:
Mainstream archeology dates the start of civilization (with architecture, monuments, cities, and a writing system) at about 3,500 BC. The advanced ancient civilization theory dates all the way back to Plato, who told of a golden age of civilization at around 10,000 BC that then suddenly collapsed. This is the Atlantis theory. An ancient, advanced civilization that possibly had sea-faring capabilities, spreading their knowledge across the world before collapsing due to a cataclysm. Another theory states that only after the cataclysm, the survivors of Atlantis went around the world to share their knowledge, causing the growth of civilizations in Mesoamerica, Egypt, India, etc.

There are a lot of clues for this, and I'll share some videos in a later post that show lots of different observations and evidence. One main observation is in Egypt, where there are seemingly two types of architecture. One with very sophisticated carvings and constructions of close-fitting (no mortar required!), megaton granite blocks. The other is less sophisticated, out of clay or limestone, which is easier to mold and cut than granite. Strangely enough, based on erosion, for example, the megalithic monuments seem older than the simpler constructions. Thus, it seems like there used to be some advanced architectural knowledge (passed down from Atlantis?) that gradually got lost over time.

The 10,000 BC timestamp seems to also match quite well with different datings of the Sphinx in Egypt, the Gobekli Tepe site in Turkey, and the period at the end of the Ice Age called the Younger Dryas, which marked both a sudden drop and rise in temperature. What was this cataclysm? There are two main theories: 1) one or many comet impacts or 2) a solar burst. Whatever the cause, it must have resulted in some global floods, as practically every ancient civilization around the world has a flood "myth":

Some info for the Ancient Alien Theory:
When you look at ancient civilizations around the world, you find commonalities such as myths about gods coming from the sky in fiery vessels, bringing advanced knowledge to people or warning them from disasters, and then leaving again. Why do mainstream historians (that live thousands of years after these tales were written) consider these legends as fairy tales instead of as eye-witness accounts of actual events, passed down orally through the generations, depicted on ancient sculptures and monuments, and written in religious texts? This theory states that the "gods" that ancient peoples saw and interacted with were real. Specifically, since they are reported to come from the sky or even specific stars in some vehicles of fire and smoke, one can clearly come to the conclusion that they were extraterrestrial visitors AKA ancient aliens.

This would explain the obsession and advanced knowledge of ancient peoples concerning astronomy and our planet. This could of course also be related to the Atlantis theory, i.e. maybe Atlanteans were aliens. But this doesn't have to be the case. Atlanteans could be humans who learned a lot from alien encounters.

The point is, why should we think we're so much smarter than the people who actually lived back then and recorded these miracles and godly events? They obviously recorded and built all of these records for a reason, because it was important to them, because it was real. When they say that gods walked the Earth, why shouldn't we believe them? Who else would know the truth but them?



Anyways, these are the theories that fascinate me. Whether you believe in aliens or Atlantis or not, it's clear that there's a lot we don't about our ancient history, and more attention should be given to these alternative theories in order to find out the truth.
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25.06.2024 - 02:14
F3ynman
Nocturnal Bro
Contributor
Some really informative videos on these subjects:

Geophysicist Dr. Robert Schoch explains the Ancient Advanced Civilization Theory and Solar Catalcysm Theory using compelling evidence from the Sphinx, Gobekli Tepe, Easter Island, and plasma physics:


Fun side-by-side comparisons of several similar sculptures and architecture across the globe during ancient times:


Observations on the Giza Plateau: trying to date different sites based on erosion:


The classic "Chariots of the Gods" documentary from 1970, popularizing the Ancient Aliens Theory:
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30.06.2024 - 00:45
Vombatus
Potorro
very cool topic! a few years ago I randomly picked up The Science of The Dogon and started going down this (very deep) rabbithole.

it's interesting these ideas are becoming more well known lately and open to discussion, or at least sometime ago I didnt have that impression. like many other things, I guess the internet helped a lot. not much stagnant gatekeeping academics can do nowadays to control the discourse.
though the whole alternative theories vs mainstream academics debate many focus on (hancock & co.) is imo a bit overblown. dont have to dig too far into nobel prizes or nasa engineers to find "mainstream" scientists that have been sharing these ideas for decades. these theories just didnt seem to have the spotlight, but are slowly surfacing back.

I'm on board with the pre-10000 bc civilization(s) theory. looking into different aspects, from geology to culture and how spread out the evidence is, all pieces seem to fit together.
sort of the natural evolution of history and knowledge, as we advance over time. it's quite easy to picture if looking back a century ago, or a milenia before.
it's what you mention in your last point, we aint so much smarter than before (in some aspects, we went backwards), and certainly not the peak of humanity. in a hundred years, people will think we were retarded for thinking x or y was an absolute immovable truth.

about the ancient alien theory, I'm more on the fence. though maybe lots of it is semantics, as in agreeing on lots of the substance but not so much the format. like the discovery channel ancient alien hyper focussed on sitchin's theories makes me cringe, but reading sumerian tablets or other ancient texts really feel like there is something more there.
imo it started to make more sense when adding the questions of reality, conscience and the overlap between religion and science. aliens as per our modern concept appear to simply be the secular version of spirits/angels/demons/whatever you want to call them from the past. quite obvious if reading old accounts of "entity" encounters, from ancient rome to medieval germany, all are aligned with what we hear nowadays. couple that up with the eerie similar explanation of reality/conscience between ancient religious theories (such as the gnostics and yogis) with more "scientific" explanations (gateway process or simulation theory), and it all starts to become a bit clearer.

anyway, to me it all feels like a giant puzzle, one long journey to fit all the pieces together.
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30.06.2024 - 02:02
F3ynman
Nocturnal Bro
Contributor
Hey, it's great that there's someone else on Metal Storm who likes talking about these theories

Written by Vombatus on 30.06.2024 at 00:45

it's interesting these ideas are becoming more well known lately and open to discussion, or at least sometime ago I didnt have that impression. like many other things, I guess the internet helped a lot.

It definitely helped me find out about this stuff!

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dont have to dig too far into nobel prizes or nasa engineers to find "mainstream" scientists that have been sharing these ideas for decades. these theories just didnt seem to have the spotlight, but are slowly surfacing back.

Good point. And ancient engineers and later scientists, cartographers, and explorers seemed to know something we don't (for example, those old maps showing greenery, lakes, and wildlife in the Sahara and Antarctica!).

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I'm on board with the pre-10000 bc civilization(s) theory. looking into different aspects, from geology to culture and how spread out the evidence is, all pieces seem to fit together.
sort of the natural evolution of history and knowledge, as we advance over time. it's quite easy to picture if looking back a century ago, or a milenia before.
it's what you mention in your last point, we aint so much smarter than before (in some aspects, we went backwards), and certainly not the peak of humanity. in a hundred years, people will think we were retarded for thinking x or y was an absolute immovable truth.

Yeah definitely. Our knowledge is constantly evolving. What we consider as truth now could be obsolete only a couple of decades later. From physics, I know that there's a whole lot we don't know: dark matter, dark energy, even QCD (describing physics inside a proton, for example) isn't totally understood. The same is true for archeology and geology, I imagine. There's a whole lot that remains unexplored under the earth, sea, and ice.

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about the ancient alien theory, I'm more on the fence. though maybe lots of it is semantics, as in agreeing on lots of the substance but not so much the format.

What exactly do you mean by this? Are you saying you believe these phenomena and "encounters", and believe it isn't necessarily aliens but actual deities/spirits? I'd love to hear more of your thoughts on this.

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like the discovery channel ancient alien hyper focussed on sitchin's theories makes me cringe, but reading sumerian tablets or other ancient texts really feel like there is something more there.

I don't know too much about Sitchin, but when I did a quick Wikipedia search the "Annunaki" theory seems familiar. By the way, when he theorizes about other planets that were destroyed in the solar system's past, there was actually a new finding by NASAthat could be relevant: extracting a sample from the Bennu asteroid, they found evidence that could mean that Bennu actually originated from an ocean world within the solar system. I don't know if they mean that it could come from Mars when it had oceans (but how would it get into space?). So, does that mean it came from a planet that exploded, torn apart by Jupiter or something?

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eerie similar explanation of reality/conscience between ancient religious theories (such as the gnostics and yogis) with more "scientific" explanations (gateway process or simulation theory), and it all starts to become a bit clearer.

By gateway process, do you mean remote viewing like the CIA's Stargate project or something else? Because that's also an intriguing topic, I find. Could our minds be not limited to the extent of our skulls, but actually be like EM fields that can reach further?
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30.06.2024 - 12:47
Cynic Metalhead
Paisa Vich Nasha
Nice topic.

I can vouch on the history I've fully grasp on - mediaeval Indian history. I'll take one piece of it to worth mentioning here,

Alternative theories suggest ancient India housed an advanced civilization far older than traditionally believed. The Indus Valley Civilization's sophisticated urban planning and the submerged city of DWARKA indicate advanced engineering. Vedic texts describe technologies like Vimanas (flying machines) and powerful weapons, hinting at high technological prowess. Mythological accounts of gods like Indra and Shiva may reflect encounters with extraterrestrial beings. Precise ancient astrology and astronomy suggest cosmic knowledge from an advanced source. Architectural wonders like Brihadeeswarar and Kailasa temples and practices like yoga and meditation are seen as remnants of this ancient knowledge, challenging mainstream archaeological views.
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30.06.2024 - 12:55
F3ynman
Nocturnal Bro
Contributor
Written by Cynic Metalhead on 30.06.2024 at 12:47

Nice topic.

I can vouch on the history I've fully grasp on - mediaeval Indian history. I'll take one piece of it to worth mentioning here,

Alternative theories suggest ancient India housed an advanced civilization far older than traditionally believed. The Indus Valley Civilization's sophisticated urban planning and the submerged city of DWARKA indicate advanced engineering. Vedic texts describe technologies like Vimanas (flying machines) and powerful weapons, hinting at high technological prowess. Mythological accounts of gods like Indra and Shiva may reflect encounters with extraterrestrial beings. Precise ancient astrology and astronomy suggest cosmic knowledge from an advanced source. Architectural wonders like Brihadeeswarar and Kailasa temples and practices like yoga and meditation are seen as remnants of this ancient knowledge, challenging mainstream archaeological views.

Yeah that is fascinating! Isn't the script of the Indus Valley Civilization also still indecipherable to this day?
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30.06.2024 - 14:51
Cynic Metalhead
Paisa Vich Nasha
Written by F3ynman on 30.06.2024 at 12:55

Written by Cynic Metalhead on 30.06.2024 at 12:47

Alternative theories suggest ancient India housed an advanced civilization far older than traditionally believed. The Indus Valley Civilization's sophisticated urban planning and the submerged city of DWARKA indicate advanced engineering. Vedic texts describe technologies like Vimanas (flying machines) and powerful weapons, hinting at high technological prowess. Mythological accounts of gods like Indra and Shiva may reflect encounters with extraterrestrial beings. Precise ancient astrology and astronomy suggest cosmic knowledge from an advanced source. Architectural wonders like Brihadeeswarar and Kailasa temples and practices like yoga and meditation are seen as remnants of this ancient knowledge, challenging mainstream archaeological views.

Yeah that is fascinating! Isn't the script of the Indus Valley Civilization also still indecipherable to this day?

Yes, and despite numerous attempts by scholars over the years, no one has been able to conclusively decipher the symbols and understand their language or meaning. The lack of a bilingual inscription (like the Rosetta Stone for Egyptian hieroglyphs) and the relatively short length of most inscriptions have made it particularly challenging. However, researchers have identified and cataloged the symbols used in the script. They can recognize patterns, the frequency of certain symbols, and their arrangements, but not able to interpreted in any known language.
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30.06.2024 - 22:44
Vombatus
Potorro
Written by F3ynman on 30.06.2024 at 02:02

By gateway process, do you mean remote viewing like the CIA's Stargate project or something else? Because that's also an intriguing topic, I find. Could our minds be not limited to the extent of our skulls, but actually be like EM fields that can reach further?

a different program. similar in some aspects and also part of the whole 60's-70's spiritual/conscience/reality research projects conducted by military/intelligence agencies.
the gateway process paper has been public for many years, I'd highly recommend anyone to check it out. mind bending stuff, literally, and a short read. basically enhancing your focus by changing brainwave patterns by synchronising your right and left brain hemispheres (hemisync). this taps into whole new frequencies that are not on this level of reality.
strangely, page 25 of the document was removed from public disclosure. but digging around, the missing page makes reference to the link between religious traditions and the holographic reality that the gateway process describes. the last paragraph on page 24 is very revealing. best part is you can try the process, the tapes by the monroe institute can be found on youtube (for now..).

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What exactly do you mean by this? Are you saying you believe these phenomena and "encounters", and believe it isn't necessarily aliens but actual deities/spirits? I'd love to hear more of your thoughts on this.

imo aliens and deities/spirits aren't necessarily separate, but a different way to describe the same phenomenon based on a person's worldview. older encounters are viewed as religious entities, while the more “modern” western approach (say, post-1947) have the proverbial greys.

so I sort of see two approaches to the phenomenon, one as a purely physical thing (beings from outer space that mastered some highly advanced tech, visit earth, etc...), the other as a non-physical thing (beings described in deep meditations, outer body experiences, NDE, psychoactive trips, etc.. anything related to dissociating yourself). could be the difference is indistinguishable, as in the first approach having these entities come in and out our level/frequency of reality, while the second is us tapping into a higher level /frequency of reality.

could also tie this to how ancient civilizations accessed knowledge: a) physical entities/gods/aliens that literally were here and taught humans, or, b) humans were more spiritually evolved and could achieve advanced levels of meditation/trance/drug usage to access info that is not available on this level/hologram/vibration of reality.
the latter is imo more plausible, as it is currently verifiable through altered states of conscience with meditation techniques or drugs. from the (greco-roman) ancient mystery schools in the past, to more modern scientist takes like von braun or tesla, all pretty much said this.

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I don't know too much about Sitchin, but when I did a quick Wikipedia search the "Annunaki" theory seems familiar. By the way, when he theorizes about other planets that were destroyed in the solar system's past, there was actually a new finding by NASAthat could be relevant: extracting a sample from the Bennu asteroid, they found evidence that could mean that Bennu actually originated from an ocean world within the solar system. I don't know if they mean that it could come from Mars when it had oceans (but how would it get into space?). So, does that mean it came from a planet that exploded, torn apart by Jupiter or something?

the idea behind the more mainstream take on ancient astronaut theorists is that annunaki are aliens from nibiru that came to earth to mine gold to repair the atmosphere of nibiru and created humans as a slave race to work for them (see: Blood Incantation ). Later everything got wiped out during a great flood and resets civilization. this is the sitchin take, but gets some stuff wrong, his translation being closer to interpretations than word for word translations. even some very basic stuff like translating “annunaki” as “those that descended from heaven” instead of “royal blood” because it fitted his narrative better.
now I wouldn't discard the whole annunaki mythos just because of someone's dodgy interpretations and discovery channel taking sitchin's work for granted. a lot of it makes sense. from the flood myth to the discovery of eridu and ur, and the content of the tombs. hell, even nibiru being a strange planet in our solar system seems to have at least some logical foundation. what you mention of some planet collisions in our solar system is also mentioned in the sumerian texts (enuma elish), though in a figurative way when marduk slayed tiamat (believed to be jupiter colliding and shattering another unknown planet).
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01.07.2024 - 01:21
F3ynman
Nocturnal Bro
Contributor
Written by Vombatus on 30.06.2024 at 22:44

the gateway process paper has been public for many years, I'd highly recommend anyone to check it out.

Sounds fascinating! I'll definitely check that out... and maybe try it out

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could be the difference is indistinguishable, as in the first approach having these entities come in and out our level/frequency of reality, while the second is us tapping into a higher level /frequency of reality.

could also tie this to how ancient civilizations accessed knowledge: a) physical entities/gods/aliens that literally were here and taught humans, or, b) humans were more spiritually evolved and could achieve advanced levels of meditation/trance/drug usage to access info that is not available on this level/hologram/vibration of reality.

the latter is imo more plausible

Very interesting ideas. So our consciousness may be able to reach some 5th dimension that matter can't access, where other life forms (including aliens/spirits/gods) could communicate with you. I guess this would eliminate the need for faster than light travel or the sort to traverse the universe.

As a side note, it's funny how Lovecraft wrote about this kind of stuff too. Ancient civilizations forgotten by current people? See "Polaris" or "The Doom That Came To Sarnath". Alien monsters arriving on primal Earth and being worshipped by cults? See the Cthulhu mythos. And travelling across the universe in dreams? See "Beyond the Wall of Sleep", for example.

But, while traversing large distances with the mind could definitely be a thing, I still think alien visitations in our past is definitely possible. Here's a paper by Carl Sagan from 1962 where he estimates through very logical scientific reasoning how many times Earth could have been visited by extraterrestrial life. He comes to the astonishing conclusion that Earth could have been visited at a rate of once per every 1,000 to 10,000 years. Or, equivalently, around 10,000 times since Earth's formation! Think of that, 10,000 times in Earth's history! Now, humans haven't been around for long, relatively speaking. But, Sagan says that aliens could have set up some kind of base somewhere (maybe the Moon, or somewhere else in the solar system) where Earth's inhabitants wouldn't be able to interfere with it.

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hell, even nibiru being a strange planet in our solar system seems to have at least some logical foundation.

Whoa! Didn't know about that evidence for a 9th planet! 500 AU from the Sun? Wow!

After a bit of googling, I also found this very good recent article, saying that we're getting closer to maybe finally get a photo of it
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08.07.2024 - 17:10
MEMORYMETALSTORM
You two both Western educated scholars from Western uni, still believe in the God shit non sense eh? Go read about Stephen Hawking, he research all and knows all case of mental disorders. God and ghost are illusion.
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11.07.2024 - 10:19
Netzach
Planewalker
Staff
Written by MEMORYMETALSTORM on 08.07.2024 at 17:10

You two both Western educated scholars from Western uni, still believe in the God shit non sense eh? Go read about Stephen Hawking, he research all and knows all case of mental disorders. God and ghost are illusion.

Try spending four hours getting tortured by a solar deity and then coming out from the experience a totally different person, then having said entity keep checking in on you on occasion even years after messing around with psychedelics, and then we'll see about "illusions". Not saying I believe for certain in gods or extraterrestrials, but I've seen enough with my own eyes to at least be open to the possibilities. And at the very least, not to make fun of people for being open-minded. I've studied theoretical physics at university and the more I've learned about it, the less certain I've become about pretty much anything at all. "Reality" (if such a thing even exists - it's likely all in our heads) is very very different from what we perceive in our daily lives. This is a view shared by most "scholars" I know of. About Stephen Hawking, he famously said "not only does God play dice, but he sometimes throws them where they cannot be seen".

Written by F3ynman on 01.07.2024 at 01:21

But, while traversing large distances with the mind could definitely be a thing, I still think alien visitations in our past is definitely possible. Here's a paper by Carl Sagan from 1962 where he estimates through very logical scientific reasoning how many times Earth could have been visited by extraterrestrial life. He comes to the astonishing conclusion that Earth could have been visited at a rate of once per every 1,000 to 10,000 years. Or, equivalently, around 10,000 times since Earth's formation! Think of that, 10,000 times in Earth's history! Now, humans haven't been around for long, relatively speaking. But, Sagan says that aliens could have set up some kind of base somewhere (maybe the Moon, or somewhere else in the solar system) where Earth's inhabitants wouldn't be able to interfere with it.

About ancient civilisations, media is so flooded with crackpot theorists (like that Hancock guy I saw on Joe Rogan's show) that I've been unable to take it very seriously, but of course it is also hard to believe that civilisation somehow would have been "invented" only a couple of thousand years ago, considering for how long humans have been around on the planet. Just look at how hard it's been to excavate Mesopotamia (buried under sand, in totally different geography than back then, not to mention all the wars), which is only 4-5000 (?) years back in time. That's a microsecond on the large scale, if even that. Time erodes nearly everything, and what we can say we know for sure is based only on what we have found so far, so, yeah. It's not a far shot to believe there have been civilisations much more ancient than those we know about - question is, what use is a theory unless you can somehow find evidence for it? We can discuss how these cultures looked until we die, but unless we actually find some tangible proof, it's still mostly going to be based on our imagination. Still, there's worse things to spend your time thinking about, I'm sure

About aliens, I don't know. I mean, I've no doubt there exist advanced alien species dotted around the universe, considering how insanely big it is, but that's also what makes it a bit unbelievable that anybody would have been able to visit us. Unless they came from within our solar system to begin with, perhaps - it's not inconceivable that life first originated on Mars, for instance, then was somehow transferred here (not necessarily deliberately, mind you, but on celestial bodies like asteroids or such - but perhaps by design). The closest solar system to ours is nearly four light-years away. How the hell would anybody be able to travel even that distance? Wormholes? Warp drives? These are all theoretical possibilities, I'm quite aware of that, but so far we've seen nothing that implies faster than light travel to be even potentially possible in any way. I'm not saying it's entirely unbelievable, but I'd like some more concrete theory about how they'd have gotten here in any practical manner. It's an exciting theory, and it would explain a lot of things, but as much as I'd like to be able to believe it, at the moment, with my current knowledge, I simply can't see how.

The hardest course I ever took was the mathematics of general relativity (seriously, fuck tensor calculus, just, seriously, don't even... just fuck it), but many headaches later, and this is what I've learned: the speed of light isn't just a maximum velocity for matter, but for everything, including information - that is, causality itself. It is the maximum propagation speed of events, at which time and space cease to exist, and going beyond c is tantamount to beginning to travel backwards in time since at that speed, there no longer exist any shortest possible distance between two points in space (more properly called an "affinely parametrised geodesic" for more reading - these are the curves followed by objects at the speed c, the "bird's path" through space-time, so to speak) So, for me to believe in FTL travel, somehow is going to have to prove general relativity wrong first. I'm sure it'll happen sooner or later, since either GR or quantum mechanics is wrong, and I'm pretty sure it's not QM, but as of now - I'd need better theories.
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Whenever I write something funny, keep in mind I learned English through Baldur's Gate.
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