Written by [user id=23267] on 04.05.2008 at 13:55

Written by selken on 04.05.2008 at 09:13

what is actually stupid is to claim to be genuine when you know you are "mainstreamed"

So mainstream music cannot be "genuine"?

of course it can, but the problem is when it isn't but ppl claim to be so

It pissed me off when a band changes their sound just to make more money. Sure they gain new fans, but they'll probably lose most of their true fans. But if a band changes sound because they like that sound more, and don't intend on making any more money out of it, thenI;m alright with it.

But when you think about it, every band that has released 5 or more albums has somewhat sold out, because no band (that I know of) has ever gotten more heavier, and less mainstream throughout their career.

If I hear it on the radio, they sold out.

LoL just kidding. Selling out is tough to define, but would anyone argue that Metallica didn't sell out? They blatantly spit in our face by completely changing into a Rock/Country/Metalcore band when those styles were popular, therefore they "sold out" their true fans in search of bigger crowds and more money. And saved a lot of shampoo in the process.

For me, a sellout band is a band that abandons their fans, in some way, in search of a wider audience. Some bands that try different styles, popular or not, are not abandoning their fans, but merely testing the waters. Of course there is always a chance for return (still waiting for Master of Puppets II), but by then it may be too late for many fans, so the band will usually decide to stick with what has made them rich and successful. Screw all that. Play the true music, for the true fans, not this radio ga-ga that sells. Eat bologna if that's all you can afford, but stay true to what you do. Change styles, try new members, write different types of songs, but don't abandon the fans that put you where you are to begin with. Cliff would never have allowed this.

Written by Haightredy on 05.05.2008 at 08:02

It pissed me off when a band changes their sound just to make more money. Sure they gain new fans, but they'll probably lose most of their true fans. But if a band changes sound because they like that sound more, and don't intend on making any more money out of it, thenI;m alright with it.

But when you think about it, every band that has released 5 or more albums has somewhat sold out, because no band (that I know of) has ever gotten more heavier, and less mainstream throughout their career.

Grave Digger, Sodom, Ministry

a little equation:
true fans = less money
poser fans = more money

more money = hot women, nice cars, big houses.... ask Lar$
sounds tempting xD xD
anyway, I hate when it happens,

Written by Haightredy on 05.05.2008 at 08:02

But when you think about it, every band that has released 5 or more albums has somewhat sold out, because no band (that I know of) has ever gotten more heavier, and less mainstream throughout their career.

Most bands do not get heavier and less mainstream throughout their career, but I would never dare to say that 5+ albums = sellout.

Also, Testament has gotten heavier and less mainstream! Check out Demonic and The Gathering. From semi-popular 80s thrash to straight death metal. Just to name the first one I could think of.

Written by Trinstar on 09.05.2008 at 07:15

If I hear it on the radio, they sold out.

LoL just kidding. Selling out is tough to define, but would anyone argue that Metallica didn't sell out? They blatantly spit in our face by completely changing into a Rock/Country/Metalcore band when those styles were popular, therefore they "sold out" their true fans in search of bigger crowds and more money. And saved a lot of shampoo in the process.

For me, a sellout band is a band that abandons their fans, in some way, in search of a wider audience. Some bands that try different styles, popular or not, are not abandoning their fans, but merely testing the waters. Of course there is always a chance for return (still waiting for Master of Puppets II), but by then it may be too late for many fans, so the band will usually decide to stick with what has made them rich and successful. Screw all that. Play the true music, for the true fans, not this radio ga-ga that sells. Eat bologna if that's all you can afford, but stay true to what you do. Change styles, try new members, write different types of songs, but don't abandon the fans that put you where you are to begin with. Cliff would never have allowed this.

I agree that Selling Out is difficult to define, and I think that there are no hard and fast rules that you can apply. However, for me the biggest indicator is the rate of change in the band's overall sound. Did the sound seem to transform into something radically different in the span of one album, or was the change more of a progression over the course of several releases? Some bands are just very experimental by nature, and you can always expect them to tamper with their sound just to see what they can come up with next, and it is often obvious that they are tampering with their sound more for their own artistic curiosity than in an attempt to appeal to a mass audience.

Written by Trinstar on 09.05.2008 at 07:15

Cliff would never have allowed this.

I'm willing to bet he would have quit shortly after the S/T-era...but we'll never know for sure. I'd say he's been doing summersaults in his grave for the past fifteen years though.

I find the term "sold out" annoying because it means i am unable to purchase the item in question.

Written by -tom- on 11.05.2008 at 20:08

I find the term "sold out" annoying because it means i am unable to purchase the item in question.

Likewise!

But really, I think the term 'sold out' has been used quite inconsequently, lately. Everyone's so quick in judging, isn´t it?
I don't have the illusion that if musicians want to live only of the music they make, they'll never have to do things they won't like so much, at one given time. No artistic activity is perfect, if we live out of it alone. If there aren't enough 'customers' to like what we make, then what? Will we take our 'trueness' under the bridge and live happily stretching our hands for a few cents?
I don't think so.

Personally, sure I don't like it when a band I loved starts playing worse music just to sell a few more albums to a wider public... But I can't really blame them. If I don't like them anymore, I'll do just like I did with Metallica: consider them dead (until they come back with something worth while) and hang on to the good stuff they did in the past, in the meantime. No big deal.:P

I understand that musicians need to make money as music is their job and i really hate using the term sold out because they do what they need to do to make money. But i really hate it when a band will drastically change there style and there look as well as ther lyrics just to get a little more money.

They should stick with there roots and not change so much that they forget where they came from musically.

Maybe this will sound weird, but I really don't understand the term "sold out." As soon as somebody becomes popular he is considered to be sold out? Metallica's black album is considered to be a sold-out act, but Metallica's Master of Puppets album is not considered one... why? Master of Puppets went gold and made them rich and popular back in 1986.

And one more thing. I just don't get the whole concept... When somebody says that a certain band sold out, does it mean that the band got together, sat down, and decided they wanted to sell out? And after this they record an album that is loved by mainstream? Can somebody give a well-grounded case of a band selling out?

I think of Dragonforce and Metallica when I hear "sold out"

Written by K✞ulu on 24.05.2008 at 11:40

Maybe this will sound weird, but I really don't understand the term "sold out." As soon as somebody becomes popular he is considered to be sold out? Metallica's black album is considered to be a sold-out act, but Metallica's Master of Puppets album is not considered one... why? Master of Puppets went gold and made them rich and popular back in 1986.

And one more thing. I just don't get the whole concept... When somebody says that a certain band sold out, does it mean that the band got together, sat down, and decided they wanted to sell out? And after this they record an album that is loved by mainstream? Can somebody give a well-grounded case of a band selling out?

Selling out refers to the compromising of one's integrity, morality and principles in exchange for money, 'success' or other personal gain. It is commonly associated with attempts to increase mass appeal or acceptability to mainstream society. A person who does this, as opposed to following the original path s/he laid (or claimed to lay) out for him/herself, is labeled a sellout and regarded with disgust and immediate loss of respect. Selling out is seen as gaining success at the cost of credibility.

EDIT: In other words, when a band makes a conscious effort to change their sound with the sole purpose of increasing record sales. Even if the music produced is quality it is still a sell-out because that band did not change their sound for any artistic reason.

Written by KryptoN on 19.08.2007 at 17:14

Written by HELLilac on 19.08.2007 at 16:44

Sadly in most cases it does.

To me it doesn't, I was mainly talking about myself and my experiences. The motives behind the music are insignificant to me. Of course there exists stuff I don't like that is "made for the radio" so to speak. On the other hand there are lots of stuff that is considered "sold out" that I like, which means there's no correlation to me. Also, blandness, uninspiring and trendy are highly subjective terms and just cannot be generalized to be absolute values or qualities.

Let's take for example In Flames, a lot of people are whining and moaning everywhere that they sold out. To me this "fact" of "selling out" has neither negative nor positive meaning, it just tells me that they've changed. I couldn't give two shits if they chose to make it more commercial and "pop" or tried to be tr00. All I care is if I like the music. People who use the term "selling out" generally are trying to say that the band has turned to shit and are trying to make it public knowledge, to say "stay away from this band." This is why I loathe the term, it reeks of intolerant elitism. It's also a safe term for when you can't figure out why you don't like a band anymore, it's easy to just blurt out that they sold out.

There's a point I tried to make somewhere up there in between the lines, but I'm having a hard time explaining it any better. Meh.

I agree with this guy. The term "Sold Out" is rather useless these days. It has almost become a parody of itself. I am of the belief that there is a lot of shitty mainstream music but I also think that shitty bands on the underground should be judged equally harsh to those in the mainstream. In short, horrible music is horrible music regardless of the reasons behind it.

Stop worrying about whether a band sold out or not. Honestly, I cannot remember the last time somebody gave me any good recommendations or advice which included the words "sold out".

Written by X-Ray Rod on 04.05.2008 at 13:26

Written by selken on 04.05.2008 at 09:13

Written by X-Ray Rod on 19.04.2008 at 14:29

Sold out is a term that I use for the bands that Change their style of music JUST because they want more money... and not for the love of making music, something that it's just stupid.

it's not stupid....

you just cant buy food with love, but with money you can

what is actually stupid is to claim to be genuine when you know you are "mainstreamed"

I meaned the bands that ALREADY have a lot of money... that's what I call a sell-out for the worse...

And I agree with the last sentence...

I agree
and for the buying food stuff, many musicians (espeially in the black-death-doom-folk...genres) have a daytime job, Frost for example is a Mathematics teacher, Mitja from Moonsorrow (Guitars) is a photographer, Ghaal is an artist (and recently a dress designer)
Music should not be their way of getting money, it shloud come from the love of making music, money comes from a job...not a passion...

Written by Gordon Freeman on 04.08.2008 at 22:43

Written by K✞ulu on 24.05.2008 at 11:40

Maybe this will sound weird, but I really don't understand the term "sold out." As soon as somebody becomes popular he is considered to be sold out? Metallica's black album is considered to be a sold-out act, but Metallica's Master of Puppets album is not considered one... why? Master of Puppets went gold and made them rich and popular back in 1986.

And one more thing. I just don't get the whole concept... When somebody says that a certain band sold out, does it mean that the band got together, sat down, and decided they wanted to sell out? And after this they record an album that is loved by mainstream? Can somebody give a well-grounded case of a band selling out?

Selling out refers to the compromising of one's integrity, morality and principles in exchange for money, 'success' or other personal gain. It is commonly associated with attempts to increase mass appeal or acceptability to mainstream society. A person who does this, as opposed to following the original path s/he laid (or claimed to lay) out for him/herself, is labeled a sellout and regarded with disgust and immediate loss of respect. Selling out is seen as gaining success at the cost of credibility.

EDIT: In other words, when a band makes a conscious effort to change their sound with the sole purpose of increasing record sales. Even if the music produced is quality it is still a sell-out because that band did not change their sound for any artistic reason.

I agree, I think the only reason there is confusion behind it is because people bat the term around too easily, and use it even when a band gets mainstream success, even if they did not compromise their sound. It comes from people who refuse to admit such and such a band attained mainstream success because they made a truly solid album. Though more cases than not, its usually because a bands sound is compromised to a more accessible sound.

I think its stupid and unfair.

C'mon--- like you wouldnt want to get the big bucks if you were in a legit band?

C'mon. I know I would.

Now there are degrees of selling out, too, but overall I am not a fan of this terminology.

First of all I think the term 'sold out' is everything but objective. If you mean, that they sell more records, well, that's fine for them - but does that say anything about the music? If you mean, that they changed their sound, and suppose (!), they did it to reach a wider public, then this is a simple question of like or dislike.

No band has the responsibility to satisfy all their fans! I mean, they are not our slaves, producing, what we dreamed of - freedom is one of the main rights of art, and music falls in this area.

I guess this term is a simple and lazy way of disclaiming a band, when it's becoming bigger! Like talking about business, if I can't find anything to say about the music..

I obviously have no clue.
That's why I don't use the word.

Written by Berfones on 21.11.2008 at 18:08

I agree
and for the buying food stuff, many musicians (espeially in the black-death-doom-folk...genres) have a daytime job, Frost for example is a Mathematics teacher, Mitja from Moonsorrow (Guitars) is a photographer, Ghaal is an artist (and recently a dress designer)
Music should not be their way of getting money, it shloud come from the love of making music, money comes from a job...not a passion...

Great words, but makes me wonder, what happens when your passion is your job?

Written by Daggon on 02.12.2008 at 05:59

Written by Berfones on 21.11.2008 at 18:08

I agree
and for the buying food stuff, many musicians (espeially in the black-death-doom-folk...genres) have a daytime job, Frost for example is a Mathematics teacher, Mitja from Moonsorrow (Guitars) is a photographer, Ghaal is an artist (and recently a dress designer)
Music should not be their way of getting money, it shloud come from the love of making music, money comes from a job...not a passion...

Great words, but makes me wonder, what happens when your passion is your job?

If your passion is your job I'd say it lets a person build their lives in other ways. It doesn't happen much though. When it does it may take up too much time and the job may not be a passion anymore but a burden...

Written by Daggon on 02.12.2008 at 05:59

Written by Berfones on 21.11.2008 at 18:08

I agree
and for the buying food stuff, many musicians (espeially in the black-death-doom-folk...genres) have a daytime job, Frost for example is a Mathematics teacher, Mitja from Moonsorrow (Guitars) is a photographer, Ghaal is an artist (and recently a dress designer)
Music should not be their way of getting money, it shloud come from the love of making music, money comes from a job...not a passion...

Great words, but makes me wonder, what happens when your passion is your job?

if your passion is your job it's great, I wish everyone would have a job they would like, but it is known that metal, especialy black, death, doom and so on, does not have much money in it, it can be profit-making hobbie, but most of the musicians need a day job to have regular income and sustain theirselves...

When I think of the term sold/sell out I think about a person that do stuff he/she don't like but do just for profit
Like go and eat with a girls parents even though slayer is in town....you do it only for profit not for fun

I get tired of people who thinks bands sold out just because they changed their sound almost, every band changes their sound after a couple of albums. Just think about it. wouldn't it been boring if metallica sounded excatly the same now as they did on their kill'em all album...and if you think they did a sold out by canching their sound in 92....they changed their sound on ride the lightning album too....they have "sold out" theire hole carrer then.

Written by arwestromen on 02.12.2008 at 23:07

I get tired of people who thinks bands sold out just because they changed their sound almost, every band changes their sound after a couple of albums. Just think about it. wouldn't it been boring if metallica sounded excatly the same now as they did on their kill'em all album...and if you think they did a sold out by canching their sound in 92....they changed their sound on ride the lightning album too....they have "sold out" theire hole carrer then.

I totally agree with your idea! "sold out" is an economic term and doesn't say anything over the music itself. That's why I think it's inappropriate to describe the music of a band - well, the band itself can sell itself like a cheap whore, if it likes. But what's interesting to me, that's how the music sounds - and music can be bad, good, cheap, original, entertaining and so on, but it can never be sold out...

The thing with sold out is that... well, it's the band members band! If they happen to do some music they really like and suddenly everyone else do, have they really sold out? And with that I don't say that no bands sell out.

I think sold-out is a meaningless term. listen to the music which pleases u! and if u dont like or u think its just for selling dont buy and dont listen it, and even dont discuss or argue about it!

When a band "sells out" it's because the type of music they play isn't widely liked and they are going to go under if they don't widen their appeal. Which brings the question to mind, why did Metallica end up sucking after the Black Album? They were making gold albums one after the other, and then it all went away when their style changed.

I think it's fans way to show jealousy towards bands, which sells more than their own precious bands. Let the musician do the music they like, and if you don't like what their doing, just gather your own band and play that kind music you like. (And see how long you wanna do the same thing)

I think selling out is a legitimate term. It comes into play the moment your music videos become more entertaining than the songs in the videos.

Written by [user id=36489] on 17.12.2008 at 00:08

why did Metallica end up sucking after the Black Album?

Two words: Bob Rock

He turned them onto a more commercially assessable style of music and a slicker image and appeal...