Truthful sayings.

I feel like this was more of a history lesson than a review of the album, especially since the rating is a perfect 10, I would have liked to read about why it received such a high rating.

Personally I give it a 4/10, but that's just due to my personal tastes. I respect the musicianship for sure, and Keenan's vocals are a bit strange -- I like strange -- but the avantgarde feel to their alternative rock/metal format comes off as a bit overdone. As for being influential... I think they were more influenced than they were influential with this release.

There is no history lesson here....everything written has to do with this album. and maybe what influenced them for this album is not important to you, but it is to some people and in my opinion the lyrics and artwork are important aspects of an album and that is why i commented upon them. also in my humble opinion there is no point analysing each and every song and raving about how good they are. someone needs to actually listen to an album to understand everything about it, and even 10,000 words cannot paint the picture in your mind that the music can...

as for your rating, of course it is respected. not everyone likes the same things...
but your statement that they were more influenced than being influential with this release is wrong on so many levels, that i cannot even address it...
but there is nothing wrong with being influenced by other bands or people, as there is nothing wrong with influencing bands either. have you got any idea how many good musicians place Tool as one of their favourite bands? apparently not. and before anyone comments on this, favourite band also means being influenced by them, consciously or subconsciously...

My history lesson comment was targeting the fact that most of this review is either "this band is awesome" or "I like this band because they are significant". While both statements are relevant, I just would have liked to see more information about your opinion. Do they play fast-paced intense music that helps one deal with their aggression? Does this album have a morose atmosphere? Are they technically gifted musicians with a fetish for raw production value?

And you say their lyrics/album covers are thought-provoking: How so? Do they promote fascist political ideals, question life values, debate religious extremism? It may be nit-picking, but I like when people elaborate on vague statements such as "they are thought-provoking".

In regards to my comment about the band being more influenced than they are influential, that comes from the band's sound, akin to 1980's Rush (as well as some early Faith No More). They undoubtedly influenced many a band with this release, but those influences come indirectly from other bands that are more related to the final product/sound than Tool themselves.

I never said any wrong came from being influenced by anybody, in fact I find it near impossible to believe when anyone says they created anything without being influenced by at least something. I have some idea of the various bands floating around in the world that cite Tool as a major influence to their sound, but I'm also aware if they look further back in the annals of history, their sound was not as original as once thought.

As for one's favorite band meaning "they are an influence", that is a not always the truth. I have a large list of what I consider my favorite bands, but if I composed music, I guarantee I would take influence from less than half of the names on that list. If Cannibal Corpse members cite Pink Floyd as a favorite band, does that mean they play "Floydian" death metal? I think not. It merely means they enjoy Floyd's music to the extent of favoring them above other bands, though how that relates in terms of musical composition is almost entirely irrelevant.

First of all of course i would say something in the vein "this band is awesome" and the likes, since this is a review written by a fan of the band who is not getting paid to write this. i just thought it deserved some kind of recognition.

secondly, there are comments about the intensity of the music and about oriental sounds, which tells you about the atmospheres you so much want to read about. also, do not forget that 500 words is not enough to elaborate more on many things, nor is it allowed by the rules here.

about specific lyrics, i just answered. i commented about them generally and i will not get into detail. i just generally gave an idea of what subjects the songs are about. i am not going to elaborate on them either, because that would be missing the point. if someone wants to, they can read the lyrics, which alone are more than 500 words...vague statements (which are not that vague, because i said something clearly) are the only way to go. i cannot pick on one specific lyric and comment upon it....what about the rest of the lyrics? should i just ignore them?

your comment about being more influenced that influential makes absolutely no sense at all, since you want to hear this....there is no measure on how much someone was influenced or how much someone was influential....and of course they were influenced by other bands. rush could be one of those that influenced them, maybe even faith no more. but in this case, i do know rush's catalogue and the same goes for faith no more's, and although i can understand where you are coming from, Tool's sound is definitely not that close related to the aforementioned bands, and i can safely say that it is (or was) uniques in its own way.

so Tool's music was as original as once thought and it will remain so. and why would you take it back to the annals of time? why do you feel this need to be 'true'? i think you really are missing the point this way.

as for a favourite band being an influence, that is always true. either consciously or subconsciously as i said. and as you said since you do not compose music, you cannot really know. also, one thing you need to understand is that being influenced by a band does not mean sounding like them....otherwise all bands in the world would sound exactly the same...but they dont.

the other thing i do not get is why would you even comment on an album you do not like? also, why do you like arguments for arguments sake? i am doing the same now and i will stop it. you can write whatever you want and you are entitled to your opinion about many things, as am i. that is what i thought, that is what i wrote. you dont like it, good for you. at least you read it and you know what someone else thinks about it. you have some reviews too, you should probably be more sympathetic about others that are doing the same, which clearly you are not...

to put an end to this, i could go on and on in a conversation about many things said here, but i do not see the point. i could also read your reviews and find things i do not like, and trust me that is very easy to do...as you probably know, since you are doing it yourself. but you know what, i do not like the bands you reviewed and i do not care enough to read about them. they are just not my cup of tea, so i would never go to someone's review and make comments like yours just to be a smartass....noone likes smartasses....

Mmm, next time please use capital letters when you begin a sentence or write the word "I".

These comments are too long to read, can anyone give me a cliffnotes

Sorry Marcel. I can try to do that here. That's what too much writing everyday does to you... Not exactly the comment i expected though...:)

Written by addiction on 19.02.2010 at 03:32

Sorry Marcel. I can try to do that here. That's what too much writing everyday does to you... Not exactly the comment i expected though...:)

I see an "i" there instead of an "I"
There's never too much writing in a day

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 19.02.2010 at 03:36

Written by addiction on 19.02.2010 at 03:32

Sorry Marcel. I can try to do that here. That's what too much writing everyday does to you... Not exactly the comment i expected though...:)

I see an "i" there instead of an "I"
There's never too much writing in a day

Hehe...I did that to see if you would spot it...

You make too many assumptions. First of all I enjoy commenting on others' reviews because, as you pointed out, I myself enjoy writing reviews. Generally when one gives criticism it isn't about being a smartass or being "true", but about sharing constructive ideas. My questions about the album were only meant to highlight things that you could do better on a future review; in no way was any of this meant to be taken as an argument as you've unfortunately misconstrued it as. Ironically your review ends with the conclusion that everyone should listen to this album. Well I have, and I wasn't impressed, but my feelings toward the album have little to do with my suggestions for your writing.

I agree with what you said about this album deserving recognition. In fact, all albums deserve recognition, for their faults and/or for their merits, otherwise it is pointless for bands to produce anything in the first place. What I meant by saying you tell your review from too much of a fan's perspective is that I would have liked to read something more analytical.

In regards to the vague statements, I've already pointed out a specific sentence and you refuted it the same way as before. If you don't want my criticism, that's fine. To each their own and I'll move on. I know you're limited to 500 words, but being general isn't saying "they are thought-provoking". Something like "their thought-provoking lyrics range from favoring abortion to rebelling against totalitarianism" would suffice.

And once again saying my comments don't make sense, which just leads me to believe (yes, I am also assuming now) that you aren't fully understanding what I'm trying to say. To quickly break it down: Tool took influence from many bands that created a sound similar to their own years before they released this album. Afterwords, not as many bands took influence from this album. Those that did were actually being indirectly influenced from the bands Tool were influenced by. Simple as that. It applies to every artist/band, not just Tool, and this doesn't mean they weren't influential, just not as much as your review implies. Comparing something to its predecessors is only logical when speaking in terms of influences, so your comment regarding my attempts at being "true" are null.

The "favorite bands being an influence" argument is a matter of opinion that neither of us will agree on, so we can only agree to disagree.

You are free to read my reviews and leave any comments you please, even if you haven't heard the music. I welcome all criticism because I use it to improve my writing style, which is something I strive to achieve. My apologies if any of this comes off as just another argument, as I am in no way "fighting" or "picking a bone"; as I stated before, I simply like discussing review tactics and it just so happens that you wrote a review on a public website, which I read and subsequently commented on. Good day sir.

^ I'm in the ugly side of MS, again.

Nice album btw.

How do you like this guy on drums?