Written by Susan on 27.06.2011 at 19:32

This album is delicious. Don't let the haters bring it down *cough*marcelandmrdoc*cough*

Far from being a hater, I just fail to see the hype that surrounds this band, like if they were trend settlers or something. Nothing wrong with followers though, it's just that this follower in particular is meh.

I disagree with Marcel on one thing. The female vocals are fine.... The growls are on the other hand quite unispired.


Fanboys are cute. Amirite, Marcel?

Written by Being and Time on 27.06.2011 at 16:42

Written by advent on 26.06.2011 at 14:02

they are losing a lot of their songwriting skills and atmosphere for the sake of being simple and accessible

I haven't listened to the album, but it sounds like people don't really agree with this line (and moreover, your whole assessment of the album). Perhaps you could clarify this by telling us what makes the songs so simple and accessible-sounding to you (ie. the production, the arrangement, or the lack of technical proficiency in the instruments or some other factor). I used to have opinions like you that no one would recognize-- this is more about drawing you out of your shell and seeing if we can reach some common ground.

You ask simply to review it somehow and i am not a professional yet but i will do my best ,for me i believe writing a song start from composing a different rhythms/riffs that somehow different and can be distinguished and mixing it together in order that will make maximum effect on listner, which i dont find in this album at all, from beginning most of the songs have no good rhyths or riffs and are kind slowing and breaking in middle of it without hearing anything that is diffrent from the flow, the riffs are inspiring , the mix of beauty and the beast became dull and senseless , performance of lisa in this album is weak, some song are just recycling from their prev. album(hear "End Of The Rope" and compare it to "The Abhorrent Rays",a song like "The Quiet Storm" failed to gain my attention because of weak and repeatative songwriting and actually remembered me of new theatre of tragedy before they disband)

EDIT: i forgot to mention atmosphere i didn't find any variety in their instrument that create any good one, even the keyboards here didn't succeed in create any depth in it, except for "Elysian Night".

Written by X-Ray Rod on 27.06.2011 at 19:39

Written by Susan on 27.06.2011 at 19:32

This album is delicious. Don't let the haters bring it down *cough*marcelandmrdoc*cough*

Far from being a hater, I just fail to see the hype that surrounds this band, like if they were trend settlers or something. Nothing wrong with followers though, it's just that this follower in particular is meh.

I disagree with Marcel on one thing. The female vocals are fine.... The growls are on the other hand quite unispired.


Fanboys are cute. Amirite, Marcel?

Cool. Well I'll try not to be the hater patrol or anything but this album seriously impressed me I've never been HUGE into the band.. though they've definitely had their moments. For my taste this is their best album so far and it shows the moment they finally got their shit together to make one cohesive work of awesome.

Written by X-Ray Rod on 27.06.2011 at 19:39

Written by Susan on 27.06.2011 at 19:32

This album is delicious. Don't let the haters bring it down *cough*marcelandmrdoc*cough*

Far from being a hater, I just fail to see the hype that surrounds this band, like if they were trend settlers or something. Nothing wrong with followers though, it's just that this follower in particular is meh.

I disagree with Marcel on one thing. The female vocals are fine.... The growls are on the other hand quite unispired.


Fanboys are cute. Amirite, Marcel?

I am meh? And you are? Duh??

Fanboys, lol.

But ok, you guys are really "underground", you have to differ somehow.

Meanwhile I will enjoy this amazing piece of metal while you still saying nonsense. You have your right to dislike or thinking it's way too accessible, but your opinion isn't more valid than anyone else.

And yours in particular is duh also

Written by Vonpire on 27.06.2011 at 20:07

But ok, you guys are really "underground", you have to differ somehow.

You have your right to dislike or thinking it's way too accessible, but your opinion isn't more valid than anyone else.

This is funny...
First: Before acting all arrogant, please show me were I said that my opinion is mandatory. I remembered writting "imo".
I know it's just my opinion and I didn't show any disrespect to you so you should do the same. Otherwise you're just making your point less valid.

Second: Feel free to check out my favorite bands/cd collection and look the huge amount of stuff that is by all means NOT underground. I do't care about popularity just quality... Our opinions about said quality differs and that's fine. My first post was meant as a explanation of what Marcel probably think it's "accessible".

AIf you got all offended by the word "fanboy" well, I can't say I'm sorry... Since Lyrinan took it as the easy joke that it was.

At first, I thought this album was meh, but after reading these comments, I'm sure it's just... like... duh.

^ Hahaha

Written by X-Ray Rod on 27.06.2011 at 20:16

Written by Vonpire on 27.06.2011 at 20:07

But ok, you guys are really "underground", you have to differ somehow.

You have your right to dislike or thinking it's way too accessible, but your opinion isn't more valid than anyone else.

This is funny...
First: Before acting all arrogant, please show me were I said that my opinion is mandatory. I remembered writting "imo".
I know it's just my opinion and I didn't show any disrespect to you so you should do the same. Otherwise you're just making your point less valid.

Second: Feel free to check out my favorite bands/cd collection and look the huge amount of stuff that is by all means NOT underground. I do't care about popularity just quality... Our opinions about said quality differs and that's fine. My first post was meant as a explanation of what Marcel probably think it's "accessible".

AIf you got all offended by the word "fanboy" well, I can't say I'm sorry... Since Lyrinan took it as the easy joke that it was.

I completely agree with Mr. Doctor here. I just opened up discussion on the accessibility of the record and it wasn't meant to turn into some huge skirmish about opinions and "underground-ness." I value the diversity of opinions (ie Marcel thinks the band is accessible in general, while other members don't find it defines their sound at all), not the comments aimed to disrespect people.

Written by Fat & Sassy! on 27.06.2011 at 20:57

At first, I thought this album was meh, but after reading these comments, I'm sure it's just... like... duh.

I received the disc in the mail this past Friday and have been enjoying it quite well. Then again, that's no surprise because it follows a similar touch to their previous release, as well as a similar production. I personally prefer the subject matter of Turning Season Within over this one, but perhaps after time the lyrics will open up a bit more for me. I prefer the sections where Lisa's vocal melodies lead, such as the softer part that begins about a minute into "A Phantom Dissonance" and lasts about thirty seconds.

In a mostly unsurprising year of metal for what I am interested in, this disc stands as one of the strongest ones. However, it is still not anything that deeply affects me the way I had hoped, at least not at this time.

Written by X-Ray Rod on 27.06.2011 at 20:16

Written by Vonpire on 27.06.2011 at 20:07

But ok, you guys are really "underground", you have to differ somehow.

You have your right to dislike or thinking it's way too accessible, but your opinion isn't more valid than anyone else.

This is funny...
First: Before acting all arrogant, please show me were I said that my opinion is mandatory. I remembered writting "imo".
I know it's just my opinion and I didn't show any disrespect to you so you should do the same. Otherwise you're just making your point less valid.

Second: Feel free to check out my favorite bands/cd collection and look the huge amount of stuff that is by all means NOT underground. I do't care about popularity just quality... Our opinions about said quality differs and that's fine. My first post was meant as a explanation of what Marcel probably think it's "accessible".

AIf you got all offended by the word "fanboy" well, I can't say I'm sorry... Since Lyrinan took it as the easy joke that it was.

"it's just that this follower in particular is meh" - So I am the arrogant here? And disrespectful? Are you kidding'? The only person who showed disrespect was you and you're just trying to turn that to the other one. Anyway, I really don't care about your opinion , everyone has theirs and that's ok.
Now you're going to at least tell me where was I disrespectful to you, aren't you? No you aren't cause I wasn't, contrary of you.
In relation to the fanboy, i just laughed at that cause that's exactly the type of comment I was expecting from someone with the "mania". It truly made me laugh. Maybe because I already was listening to Metal and you weren't even born...

"So if it's even more accessible there really isn't anything left any more." - This is self explanatory, no need to all post pseudo-explanations about It. I know many accessible music that is way better than the majority of the releases he enjoys the most, but not going to discuss this here. Tastes are tastes, some others are just ...meh (!?).

Anyway I really think Marcel didn't need a "bodyguard" "amirite"? *g*
LHBah

PS : Search for "expert" reviews of "A Rose for the Apocalypse" on google. You'll be surprised... Not that it counts for anything.

IMO it's just another masterpiece as Draconian generally does. All songs are beautifull and powerfull. That's where the hype that you don't understand comes from.

After listening to the album regularly for the past few days I have mixed feelings about it. I was hoping for a nice hybrid between the more doomy moments of the first two albums and the mid-tempo gothic approach of the last one. The result howerver is for the most part Turning Season Within all over again with some violin and down-tempo parts thrown in. Don't get me wrong though, I think it's a good album nonetheless with some stand out moments like the aggression of "The Drowning Age", the atmosphere of "The Phantom Dissonance" or Lisa's part on "End of the Rope". The overall atmosphere and sound just doesn't feel as evolved or fresh like it did on Turning Season Within.

The album is great in many ways but it does not reach the level of Draconian's first two efforts mainly due to the similaries of Turning Season Within and it's irregularity as a whole. Draconian has kept such a high level ever since their debut and I am fine with their new sound on and A Rose For the Apocalypse, I just hope that they don't lose their connection to doom altogether in the future.

Written by Draugen on 28.06.2011 at 16:17

After listening to the album quite regularly for the past few days I have mixed feelings about it. I was hoping for a nice hybrid between the more doomy moments of the first two albums and the up-tempo gothic approach of the last one. The result howerver is for the most part Turning Season Within all over again with some violin and down-tempo parts thrown in. Don't get me wrong though, I think it's a great album nonetheless with some stand out moments like the aggression of "The Drowning Age", the atmosphere of "The Phantom Dissonance", the refrain of "Deadlight" or Lisa's part on "End of the Rope". The overall feeling and sound just doesn't feel as evolved or fresh like it did on Turning Season Within.

The album is excellent in many ways but it just don't quite reach perfection due to the similaries of Turning Season Within and it's irregularity as a whole. This is without a doubt one of the albums that has been the most difficult to rate. Draconian is my favorite band and has kept such a high level ever since their debut. I am perfectly fine with their new sound on Turning Season Within and A Rose For the Apocalypse. The albums are great in their own way so to compare them with Where Lovers Mourn or Arcane Rain Fell is not entirely fair imo.

i agree with u in many ways, i didn't feel anything new and i missed thier doomy parts, and i like the fact that they were releasing high standard albums they till the last one wich was cool but a little shallow ,anyway let me say that i feel that ur rating don't get along with what u said about the album .

Listened to it a couple of times now and this album makes their previous efforts seem like riveting master pieces to me. My God what an immense yawn inducing snorefest this is. A cure for insomnia and a great birth control medicine. The female vocals are once again by far the weakest part. Not because they're bad, but because they don't fit, these vocals should be in Within Temptation (she really IS trying to sound an awful lot like Sharon), After Forever and Epica.
What a shame of talent this release is. If one wants to hear of what the main guy is capable of just listen to Doom: VS which is infinitely more superior and riveting and, and, and...

It's not for my lack of trying with Draconian I have tried an immense amount of times and also live (there they are even worse, also according to quite a few die hard fans) But Draconian are even weaker than Swallow The Sun. A band for doom noobs and people looking for easy instant gratification music, dare I say. The Mc Donald's/Burger King/KFCS Starbuck's of doom/gothic doom.

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 29.06.2011 at 03:46

Listened to it a couple of times now and this album makes their previous efforts seem like riveting master pieces to me. [+ the rest of the reply which is too long to quote ].

Marcel, I thing anybody who has visited this site more than twice knows your attitude.

I am not saying you are wrong. Yes, Draconian has always been a rather accessible band and yes, after a couple of listens, I, too, think this is their weakest effort by far. The better part of what made Draconian's previous albums special, the eerie (if accessible) mood of sadness and melancholy, seems to be gone most of the time and what remains is only a rather generic melodeath with a pinch of gothic hints and (still) decent female vocals (which however, do not fit with the "new"Draconian as well as they did before, you are totally right here).

All I am trying to say here is that accessibility is not always a bad thing. No offence meant, buddy, but this attitude of yours seems to be pretty close to the elitist approach of literary (would-be) intellectuals, who keep parroting their novels-which-are-fun-and-read-well-cannot-be-good mantra. Let's be frank, shall we? There are days (and there are many of them) when I enjoy nothing more than good doom (such as Warning, which, I know, is one of your favourites too). But there are also days and occasions when one (yes, even YOU ) does not feel like listening to anything too complex/inaccessible. And Draconian are still VERY far away from Within Temptation, that pinnacle of cheap accessibility that once used to be a metal band (but which many of us give a spin every now and then anyway).

I'll not even going to comment or I would be called of arrogant, disrespectful... (or worse)

But I'll quote this...

"but this attitude of yours seems to be pretty close to the elitist approach of literary (would-be) intellectuals, who keep parroting their novels-which-are-fun-and-read-well-cannot-be-good mantra"



One thing I agree with both : Despite being excellent this album is the "weakest" by Draconian, which having in consideration the level of Draconian previous releases isn't necessarly a bad thing...

But maybe are just me and another 88 people which are doom noobs....

Obvious troll is obvious yet there are still people who catched the post.
Nice one Marcel.

Wow, what a intelectual post above... :

We agree, the trolls are obvious...

I'm really glad Marcel didn't like...

Written by Vonpire on 29.06.2011 at 15:09

Wow, what a intelectual post above... :

Yeah I agree... meh.. that post was so.. duh

Duh...

Kid, let's clarify one thing. Draconian is GOTHIC Doom. We all know that Marcel and gothic don't mix up. Does that makes this a bad album? Are you trying to influence the people who like it to think that maybe we're all wrong and you, the "bright" ones are the ones right? Does it make this release "an immense yawn inducing snorefest. A cure for insomnia and a great birth control medicine. The female vocals are once again by far the weakest part. Not because they're bad, but because they don't fit" . ? - Gothic Doom Metal , hello???!???

And then this pearl : "But Draconian are even weaker than Swallow The Sun. A band for doom noobs and people looking for easy instant gratification music"
Saying this from the band who made Arcane Rain Fell is really the most stupid thing I have heard this week.

Marcel opinion for me is like a newspaper, I read it and then throw up in the garbage. Not that his opinion isn't valid it's just usually I don't take it in consideration and usually I don't agree at all with it, like here. The only problem is that he states it not like an opinion but more like and irrefutable truth, anyone who says otherwise is a noob.

And comparing Gothic Doom with Funeral Doom isn't a very smart move also.

Tastes....

Hope you two be very happy together.

PS : You didn't answer where i was arrogant and disrespectful , Oh wait.. It was you. That's ok. You're in the stupid age, it will pass... Eventually.

Written by Vonpire on 29.06.2011 at 15:34

You're in the stupid age, it will pass... Eventually.

I was just posting this yesterday:

Quote:
Far from being a hater, I just fail to see the hype that surrounds this band, like if they were trend settlers or something. Nothing wrong with followers though, it's just that this follower in particular is meh.

I disagree with Marcel on one thing. The female vocals are fine.... The growls are on the other hand quite unispired.

You know... just an opinion, without any fuzz about it and YOU went all "duh and meh" on it and you call me "being on the stupid age"(?). If I'm posting a regular opinion and someone answers me back, I would like to have a normal response so the conversation goes well even if opinions are different... I don't need the silly answers of a 13 year old.

I guess the only bad thing I did here is sinking to your level afterwards.

Why is everyone offended by Marcel's and Mr.Doctor's remarks if you like it , it is enough ... just because a staff member (who is a doom elite) and an MS Elite don't like it , it shouldn't make you upset in anyway ever
I loved Alcest's 2010 album and thought it is one of the best albums ever , Marcel thought it is another snorefest
I love Opeth's Ghost Reverie and prefer it to many other albums of their discography and others think it is their weakest album
I still LOVE both albums and respect others' opinions and most importantly .... I don't take it personally because it is not me who made the music

It is really annoying whenever a big name releases a new album and these endless bitch-fights fill up the pages

Written by InnerSelf on 29.06.2011 at 16:03

I loved Alcest's 2010 album and thought it is one of the best albums ever , Marcel thought it is another snorefest

Dude, to this day Marcel still gives me posts about how friggin boring Alcest was on Roadburn (and Roadburn was on april...). If I was so easily offended I would have killed him by now considering the amount of post that tells the same thing about Alcest But nah, I take it lightly.

Written by X-Ray Rod on 29.06.2011 at 15:46

Written by Vonpire on 29.06.2011 at 15:34

You're in the stupid age, it will pass... Eventually.

I was just posting this yesterday:

Quote:
Far from being a hater, I just fail to see the hype that surrounds this band, like if they were trend settlers or something. Nothing wrong with followers though, it's just that this follower in particular is meh.

I disagree with Marcel on one thing. The female vocals are fine.... The growls are on the other hand quite unispired.

You know... just an opinion, without any fuzz about it and YOU went all "duh and meh" on it and you call me "being on the stupid age"(?). If I'm posting a regular opinion and someone answers me back, I would like to have a normal response so the conversation goes well even if opinions are different... I don't need the silly answers of a 13 year old.

I guess the only bad thing I did here is sinking to your level afterwards.

Oh really? Are you serious
Explain then the meaning of this sentence to me...: "its just that this follower in particulars is meh.
And then, with your sinking level show me where I was arrogant or disrespectful. Im waiting. Meanwhile Im enjoying ARFTA.

Ooooh now I get it.

Written by Vonpire on 29.06.2011 at 16:19

Oh really? Are you serious
Explain then the meaning of this sentence to me...: "its just that this follower in particulars is meh.
And then, with your sinking level show me where I was arrogant or disrespectful. Im waiting. Meanwhile Im enjoying ARFTA.

Ok, I'm willing to explain myself because this seems to be an honest misunderstanding and for that I could say sorry.

Quote:
I just fail to see the hype that surrounds this band, like if they were trend settlers or something. Nothing wrong with followers though, it's just that this follower in particular is meh.

When I said "follower"... I didn't mean you. I meant the Band.
Hell... I didn't really noticed your posts before you quoted me in the first place. I wrote what I wrote because someone was asking what Marcel meant by saying "accessible" and I just answered back since I know Marcel's opinion about it.
I guess that it was for the first comment of mine that you went "you're meh", "underground elite dudes getting all full on themselves and dismissing mainstream music" and stuff... And since that was completely untrue, I felt you were just mocking me and I overreacted a little, so did you though.

Peace brah. It's just music. If you like it, it's perfectly fine for me.

I'm entering a nest of snakes it seems...
Since I enjoyed Draconian before, I gave this one a few spins.
If I were to listen 2-3 songs at a time, I'd say this album is very good. I like its subtle production and classy arrangements. But the whole album listened to at one sitting is quite boring. there is simple not enough variety between songs, they blend into one too long song. Female vocals are adept and professional, but they dominate a bit too much in the songs. As Marcel said, there's too much Sharon Den Adel here... I don't know, maybe if they shortened the album to 40 minutes, I'd like it more. Don't get me wrong, it's not bad at all, but it's far from a 10.

Well I believe that it was a mistake but I dont see how you didnt get it before.
Anyway I still cant see where I was arrogant or disrespectful.

Meanwhile Marcel's opinion still a "newspaper" to me. But like I said before its just tastes and music (Very good one though imho).

First times I listened I won't give it a 10 also. Probably I would rate this a 8 or 7.

But as I already know it's needed at least 5 spins to truly understand a album, at least in my case. (there are exceptions, but very few).

And Im not going to spam anymore.

Written by Vonpire on 29.06.2011 at 16:40

Well I believe that it was a mistake but I dont see how you didnt get it before.
Anyway I still cant see where I was arrogant or disrespectful.

I said I overreacted a little and I admit that yet you are the one who called me stupid, that's quite disrespectful in my book together with answering with "mehs and duhs" when someone is just giving his opinion. Not really my bad that you misunderstood the follower comment

Playing the age card is pretty low here, I don't appreciate such behaviour just because you got a 3 and I got a 1 on my age. It just makes you look like you're saying you were superior just for that.

That is all.

Well It's normal I understood the word follower exactly by his meaning... Follower. Maybe you wrote your sentence bad? Anyway, end of this chapter, really.

Now I reviewed all my posts and still can't see where did I call you stupid or anything similar with it. The duh was just to contrast with meh and I thought you would get it at first.

PLEASE tell me where I called you stupid! Sorry but you won't be going away with that sentence, simply cause it's a lie. Read the posts we traded and quote the part where it is.

I didn't played any age card. It's just calling troll to someone who didn't even was talking to you is really childish (Unless you're a vote abuser, those are really trolls)

EDIT : We already understood each other, the "snakes" are out. It's a silly discussion we both agreed with that.

Well, I don't like jumping in this "age card" or whatever discussion, but I think leaving such comments "Draconian suck" or so, is no appropriate behavior.
I'm a fan of Draconian, and I don't enjoy reading this argue on "Draconian is accessible" and...

Is it hard for some people seeing a band called Draconian have some fans?
And a more important question: Is it okay just to say "Draconian suck" in the topic of their new album where their fans read?

Maybe I hate a lot of bands, but I never just stand there and shout "Hey! I hate that band! They suck!" in the middle of their fans!

I'm not trying to discuss how good or bad was this album but I know a lot of people who really appreciated this.

P.S. Just writing a review for this one!