Basically, is pop metal a thing? By this I mean, does the overlap between metal and pop have any special significance other than being metal and pop? Throughout the history of metal, a wide variety of bands and subgenres have been labeled as pop by metalheads, and metal by pop fans, as if a dichotomy exists between the two, so where does this place these bands? Are they pop, metal, both, or something special which is worth noting? I've always think there has been a special place for "mainstream" (which bands are the "mainstream" ones depends on where you stand in the metal world) metal bands in the development of metal where they act as a bridge between the underground and the uninitiated, shaking up the metal world every generation as the current form of pop metal leaves it's imprint from the new fans, while what's happening in the underground shapes what new form of pop metal will develop. I'm going to leave the discussion opened ended, what does pop metal mean to you? Is it an oxymoron, a general adjective, something specific, or what?

I don't even know anymore...

I know very few bands that can be considered pop metal without being pejorative... But it's definitely not a thing...
Care to say some examples in order to understand what are you considering as pop metal here?

Written by Karlabos on 30.09.2014 at 15:31

I know very few bands that can be considered pop metal without being pejorative... But it's definitely not a thing...
Care to say some examples in order to understand what are you considering as pop metal here?

I'm thinking more like general trends like glam metal, nu metal, metalcore, or symphonic metal where the genre get's poppier and may get some mainstream popularity, or specific bands which are relatively more popular than the rest of their subgenre and have musical traits reflecting that, maybe even something like Mastodon, though I wouldn't call them a pop band.

Written by Ganondox on 30.09.2014 at 20:13

Written by Karlabos on 30.09.2014 at 15:31

I know very few bands that can be considered pop metal without being pejorative... But it's definitely not a thing...
Care to say some examples in order to understand what are you considering as pop metal here?

I'm thinking more like general trends like glam metal, nu metal, metalcore, or symphonic metal where the genre get's poppier and may get some mainstream popularity, or specific bands which are relatively more popular than the rest of their subgenre and have musical traits reflecting that, maybe even something like Mastodon, though I wouldn't call them a pop band.

Well, I think it is to be expected that trendy and popular bands are a thing... If playing such music appealing to both metal and non-metal audiences is generating money why not stick to it? =p

Written by Karlabos on 30.09.2014 at 20:20

Written by Ganondox on 30.09.2014 at 20:13

Written by Karlabos on 30.09.2014 at 15:31

I know very few bands that can be considered pop metal without being pejorative... But it's definitely not a thing...
Care to say some examples in order to understand what are you considering as pop metal here?

I'm thinking more like general trends like glam metal, nu metal, metalcore, or symphonic metal where the genre get's poppier and may get some mainstream popularity, or specific bands which are relatively more popular than the rest of their subgenre and have musical traits reflecting that, maybe even something like Mastodon, though I wouldn't call them a pop band.

Well, I think it is to be expected that trendy and popular bands are a thing... If playing such music appealing to both metal and non-metal audiences is generating money why not stick to it? =p

Well, obviously, but I mean, is it just metal that's trendy, or does it warrant any special classification?

Written by Ganondox on 01.10.2014 at 05:15

But is it just metal that's trendy, or does it warrant any special classification?

In my opinion it doesn't deserve any special classification, because those so called poppy bands comes from different genres, and hence having not that much in common.
Pick Within Temptation then Avenged Sevenfold and any other pop metalcore band. They all have that "poppy" side on their songs, but now you can't really say they exactly play the same genre. I would classify each band to their own style but taking out the commercial thing. Like Within Temptation as gothic metal and similar to the others. The only difference is that they play a more mainstream gothic metal.

Not quite a real thing I think but I would describe few bands as pop metal which really do have loads of pop influence. Amaranthe comes to mind. Modern metalcore tends to also have much. But I wouldn't call any metal subgenre as pop all together... Maybe only glam but then again - isn't really entirely metal in the first place. It goes for particular bands the way I see it.

Written by Karlabos on 30.09.2014 at 15:31

Care to say some examples in order to understand what are you considering as pop metal here?

Samargl's Staanic Pop Metal, Delain's albums (possibly excluding the debut), Blood Stain Child's Epsilon, Within temptation's Heart Of Everything and Hydra, Ambeon, Arven, Tarja's My Winter Storm and maybe Luca Turilli's Dreamquest and Def Leppard's Hysteria. All of these I think have enough pop sound in them to be under the umbrella term 'pop metal'. Whether it's a genre or not would probably depend on how often the term gets used.

In these days any two genres can be merged it seems, with bands like Amaranthe and Destiny Potato I'd say pop metal is definitely a thing. I don't think calling a metal band pop counts as an insult tho. Like every other genre, there are some good pop metal bands.

I think Amaranthe or maybe Halestorm are pop metal though i like Halestorm sometimes and within temptation when he starts covering everything and works with Xzibit

Bands that have a more accessible and 'safe' sound thats more radio friendly. Early Arch Enemy would not fit that but newer (ie. Anthems of Rebellion onwards) would. Certain Iron Maiden songs intended to be radio friendly singles (Different World, The Wickerman, Rainmaker etc). I would say any paticular genre is 'Pop Metal', but if there was one, then maybe Nu-Metal and Symphonic Goth (due to bands such as Evanescence).

Written by _deepblack on 02.10.2014 at 11:44

I think Amaranthe or maybe Halestorm are pop metal though i like Halestorm sometimes and within temptation when he starts covering everything and works with Xzibit

I would never expect to hear a rapper in a symphonic metal song.

I see people saying things like "pop metal doesn't exist" or something to that effect. Which is completely wrong, look up Baby Metal for j-pop meets metal. Sort of odd, kind of annoying, but almost cool (because it might create a new generation of metalheads in Japan).

Anyway, look up any song like "Gimme Chocolate" and you'll see what I mean.

Written by Ganondox on 02.10.2014 at 19:36

Written by _deepblack on 02.10.2014 at 11:44

I think Amaranthe or maybe Halestorm are pop metal though i like Halestorm sometimes and within temptation when he starts covering everything and works with Xzibit

I would never expect to hear a rapper in a symphonic metal song.

That song had potential, but it was let down by last songwriting. Far too repeditave lyrically, too.

What fucking next

There's a Ukrainian band called Semargl claim to play what may be known as "Satanic pop metal". I would not advise to venture there as the music is fucking garbage. Let's hope this does not become officially a "thing".

Written by M C Vice on 03.10.2014 at 06:43

Written by Ganondox on 02.10.2014 at 19:36

Written by _deepblack on 02.10.2014 at 11:44

I think Amaranthe or maybe Halestorm are pop metal though i like Halestorm sometimes and within temptation when he starts covering everything and works with Xzibit

I would never expect to hear a rapper in a symphonic metal song.

That song had potential, but it was let down by last songwriting. Far too repeditave lyrically, too.

i think Whitin Temptation is lost right now first it was a good job so more people listen to them but now its a pop metal

It's not hard to define in terms of commercial success if a band has turned into mainstream. But that means that it turned into pop metal?
Well, Dimmu Borgir and Nightwish got really big but aren't both still heavy?
When Metallica launched the black album a lot of people considered that to be the beginning of pop metal. I would agree with this if it wasn't for the fact that the black album is still a very heavy album.
Then we had the nu metal thing. Which was more a mix of metal with hip hop that lasted while Linkin Park managed to record decent albums (yes i like Hybrid Theory and Meteora).
On the other hand bands like Lacuna Coil and Within Temptation may represent very well what pop metal might sound like.

As for a genre in itself, it's kind of silly that a band tries to create that crossover. You have for instance Sonic Syndicate who tries to do that with very bad results.

This is simply hideous:



Here in Portugal there are a few bands that are trying to pick where Lacuna Coil and Within Temptation left and mixing pop structures with metal:

Kandia
Blame Zeus
Secret Lie

Check them out. Not my cup of tea, but of you're into this stuff you might like it.

Written by Gothmog_Motsham on 03.10.2014 at 11:26

There's a Ukrainian band called Semargl claim to play what may be known as "Satanic pop metal". I would not advise to venture there as the music is fucking garbage. Let's hope this does not become officially a "thing".

Haha, I couldn't remember the name but I wanted to point them out before when I made my comment here. Interesting thing is that they did completely decent black metal in the beginning and suddenly started to do this pop bs. Kind of a drastic sound change.

Written by [user id=151504] on 03.10.2014 at 16:43


Haha, I couldn't remember the name but I wanted to point them out before when I made my comment here. Interesting thing is that they did completely decent black metal in the beginning and suddenly started to do this pop bs. Kind of a drastic sound change.

Maybe they wanna be the metal version of Pitbull or whoever the fuck teenage girls worship these days

This discussion reminds me of the dispute about the so-called "lite metal" in the 90s. Well thematically lite metal is more about (lost and sick) love instead of dissolution and alienation, but the distinction certainly doesn't apply now since so many metal bands cover pathetic love and desire now. I do think it unfair to judge a band pop metal depending on its commercial success as metal is extremely trendy nowadays. And let's to be fair even currently musically poppy bands such as Within Temptation and Lacuna Coil started quite heavy. I would prefer to see the term pop metal as a hybrid, both as an inevitable musical evolution and as a healthy progress. Once a genre is fixed and never changes it is, well, you may say it's real authentic, but it's also potentially dead as well. Just to put it metaphorically, cross-breeding between musical genres is not really bad but to make the music undead.

The definition of pop-metal: an old executive sitting in their chair and claiming, "some people don't have the mentality or patience to appreciate metal, let's appeal to their rebellious spirit, but mindless thinking by spitting out the catchiest metal we possibly can." Bands which prefer catchiness over creative or intelligent songwriting.

Whereas commercial metal is simply a subgenre that by its very nature is a bit more accessible. Some examples can be symphonic, prog, power, metalcore as they are obviously "easier to listen to" than is your kvlt or underground obscure stuff.

I love all metal, it's like oxygen to me. Whether it be the beauty of symphonic, the excitement of power, the coolness of progressive, the intricacies of death or the anarchy of black. But I draw a line at pop-metal. I might as well just give in and listen to whatever is in the Top 40 as does the rest of the universe.

Written by [user id=104220] on 03.10.2014 at 15:19

It's not hard to define in terms of commercial success if a band has turned into mainstream. But that means that it turned into pop metal?
Well, Dimmu Borgir and Nightwish got really big but aren't both still heavy?
When Metallica launched the black album a lot of people considered that to be the beginning of pop metal. I would agree with this if it wasn't for the fact that the black album is still a very heavy album.
Then we had the nu metal thing. Which was more a mix of metal with hip hop that lasted while Linkin Park managed to record decent albums (yes i like Hybrid Theory and Meteora).
On the other hand bands like Lacuna Coil and Within Temptation may represent very well what pop metal might sound like.

As for a genre in itself, it's kind of silly that a band tries to create that crossover. You have for instance Sonic Syndicate who tries to do that with very bad results.

This is simply hideous:



Here in Portugal there are a few bands that are trying to pick where Lacuna Coil and Within Temptation left and mixing pop structures with metal:

Kandia
Blame Zeus
Secret Lie

Check them out. Not my cup of tea, but of you're into this stuff you might like it.

1. Sonic Syndicate, what are you doing? The only good song I've heard by them is the one with the singer from Soilwork.
2. Has a disgusting amount of modern pop in it, Amaranthe is about as much as I can stomach, and they still have a few parts that make me want to throw up.
3. They really need to up their production if they want to be pop, otherwise it's decent. Sorta has a hard rock feel.
4. Best of the lot, though there isn't any metal there.

I tend to have very specific definitions for my subgenres, so when I think of the phrase "pop metal", I think of a lot of the 80s rock/metal stuff, like Def Leppard, Europe, Van Halen, Scorpions, Ratt, Poison, etc. Basically, a cruncher version of Journey. (FWIW, I would label bands like Twisted Sister, WASP, and Motley Crue as Glam Metal, as they tend to lean more heavily on the shock and sleaze.)

That being said, it's pretty specific, so the idea of calling something "pop metal" that was made by a band that started beyond 1991 sounds really strange. However, giving the idea more thought (based on the explanation provided in the original post), I could see it being applied to a few other bands or time periods. For example, I could see many of the second and third waves of nu metal bands falling into that category (I saw someone else mention Linkin Park, and I think that fits). I suppose Power Metal got that way by 2002-03-ish in Europe. For the past handful of years, I'd say it's the whole Symphonic/Gothic scene, thanks to the explosion of bands like Evanescence. I don't know what it would be now, as I'm pretty out of touch with popular music these days (except that they seem to be completely ripping of House and Trance ideas from about 10 years ago!).

In any case, I suppose this kind of half-way-metal stuff will always exist. Not every teenager wants to hear Justin Beiber or Taylor Swift when they get to high school.

Written by Gothmog_Motsham on 03.10.2014 at 11:26

There's a Ukrainian band called Semargl claim to play what may be known as "Satanic pop metal". I would not advise to venture there as the music is fucking garbage. Let's hope this does not become officially a "thing".

Yes! Oh god. I thought I'd blocked them out of my memory. As far as I know, they're the old band to brand THEMSELVES with the word "pop."

Interesting discussion. There are certainly bands incorporating pop in their metal and it's not limited to glam metal, nu metal, metalcore, or symphonic metal, though those are certainly the stereotypes (someone mentioned Metallica, for example).

And of course there is a difference between pop and crap. Not all pop is crap and not all crap is pop! Some metal bands just suck and don't need pop to help them along in sucking

Then there are bands who do pop well. Of course that is subjective. "Using" pop music as a means to make your music more accessible and sell records gets no respect form me, however, bands who enjoy various aspects of pop or pop rock and want to FUSE that with metal music can be quite enjoyable. Not always but it has happened.

Of course the first that comes to mind is Amaranthe. I still enjoy their debut album quite a bit and that is HUGELY pop with metal elements mixed in. That album combines the two quite well for me because they blended the styles at the musical foundation and did each style well. Other bands come along and just add blast beats to pop and blend the styles at a superficial level. That is usually pretty awful (Blood Stain Child, for instance).

Lol! This term was used to refer to bands like Motley Crue, Poison and other sleaze/glam/whatever suff. I didn't know about this japanese stuff!

Id say it depends on what your definition of 'pop' is...

If you use it literally, pop is short for popular, so any metal that is popular could be considered 'pop metal' or 'popular metal' ex: Nightwish, Children of Bodom, Metallica, Slayer, Behemoth, Amon Amarth, Iron Maiden etc. though these bands don't really sound similar at all they would all fall into the same category because of their popularity.

The other way you can use the term pop is to denote a specific sound that shares similarities to traditional pop music sound, so pretty much metal but with catchy hooks and easier accessibility, in this case Glam Metal would fall under that category(though it is often more similar to rock than metal but also depends on the band), Nu Metal bands, many Metalcore bands, most but not all Sympho Metal bands and various other groups who's genres aren't as easily defined such as Amaranthe.

That's my opinion at least. Personally I don't have a problem with 'poppy' stuff as long as it still sounds good, I love Motley Crue, Skid Row, Crashdiet, VoJ, Nightwish, Epica and admittedly Amaranthe. At the same time though I think most of the Glam and Sympho genre is terrible because people with no talent bandwagoned the sound and watered down the good elements and I am not interested in Nu/Metalcore at all. I think it's lame to write off entire genres just because they are 'pop'. Just like what you like regardless of cultural significance, otherwise if you specifically wont listen to something because its not 'cool', in a way, you are being just as conformist as someone who listens to nothing but pop because its mainstream. Just be yourself regardless of cultural norms, just my two cents.

I don't think a band should / could be called pop metal; they belong to an specific genre or sub-genre, be it goth, alt, power, and the only difference is that they might play it with a little more mainstream appeal; this will get them exposed (almost certainly) to a wider audience, but it would still be metal.
For example, if you compare grindcore vs power metal, the latter would be consider "poppier" obviously; but in reality it's not, it's just a different type of metal.