Before you opened this forum, I bet you were scratching your head over the title. well, I wouldn't create this if I didn't do my research. Here is my theory:

For millions of years, there have been wars. Difference of religion, i believe, is the cause of all major wars.

for example, The American Revolution. People have immigrated to the united states to rid themselves of religious prosecution.

also, the war in iraq. The american troops are merely aides in reform. The real war is between the sunnis and the shites.

Does anyone agree with my theory or am i nuts?

Firstly, inbeforehemlock

Secondly, I think it's obvious to even the most amateur historian that religion can and does cause war. However, it should be equally obvious that it is rarely the sole cause.

That's as ignorant a statement as saying that guns kill people. Religion in itself does not cause war, people cause war. They merely use religion unfairly as a shield to give "reason" to their actions.

Religion is just a tool for people to use however they want. I could take a hammer and build a house for a poor person, or I could take that same hammer and bash that poor person's skull in. The same tool used for two entirely different purposes. People can use religion to justify war, or they can use it to improve themselves, their communities, or whatever. If religion didn't exist people would just use other institutions/mechanisms to wage and justify violence.

@....the Muse : You have predict well

Like Winter Death told Religion is a tool so people use it for many reasons . I don't think that Religion in a way means War. No religion say that war is good. .

Written by {aud}devil on 19.09.2007 at 04:05

Before you opened this forum, I bet you were scratching your head over the title. well, I wouldn't create this if I didn't do my research. Here is my theory:

For millions of years, there have been wars. Difference of religion, i believe, is the cause of all major wars.

for example, The American Revolution. People have immigrated to the united states to rid themselves of religious prosecution.

also, the war in iraq. The american troops are merely aides in reform. The real war is between the sunnis and the shites.

Does anyone agree with my theory or am i nuts?

You have good points there. I think in more oppressive societies have a tendancy to use religion as an excuse for their actions. But thats just it, what other institutions could they use to cover their actions? Religion is the most accessible in that sense. Of course, Im mainly talking about more isolated populations or like back in history where people were too illiterate to understand the scriptures or where clergymen translated the scriptures.

I mean, look at the crusades...all of those poor farmers being told that they will have their sins cleansed if they marched with them to Jerusalem. Or look, when Ariel Sharon stepped on the temple mount what happenned after that? It rekindled a war! So actually IMO, war is something that is too complex to interpret as being cause of religion...It certainly had its times.

War is caused by people, who often use religion, amongst other things, as a means to justify their selfish motives for waging war to the masses. End of story.

Religion is often said to be the reason for war.. But I think the true reason is more earthly. The fight for nature resources, space for living, etc. It's more conquering people than their believes.

I must agree with Mr. Wyatt in saying that religion does not cause war, people do. I have also seen that throughout history that religious people who cause war are astoundingly ignorant. (If you want proof of this, looks no further than George W. Bush.) Wars, for the most part, are mainly caused over the ownership of resources.

I agree with those who say that wars are caused by people.....religion is usually the last thing they care about....I see it in everyday life as well...here where I live, people who visit church very often, donate lots of money, organise all kinds of things for the church etc...they seem to be perfect Christians...in fact they're selfish, greedy and not religious at all....they do what's useful for themselves...

Same with wars...wars are born by people's greed and malice...religion is just a pretext....of course one can affect the minds of masses with it...with fear as well....

obviously wars are declared by people and fought by them, so something like religion cant cause it, however if there were no religions there would be less "reasons" to fight. Although it seems like religion has a lot to do with crusades and other wars, it is simply an excuse, or a reason for rulers to get people behind them. Go along with me here. If a leader of country A wants to attack country B, for wealth or land or resources, what perfect excuse is it to tell his own people, that the reason of attackinng country B is because their religion threatens us for whatever reasons. Since people of religion A dont know to much about religion B, and just hear what they are told, its fucking genius.

Now if u were the president of United States, how would u get people to support u for the war
- We are going into Iraq because they have lots of oil, which means lots of money for me
or
- Muslims crashed planes into twin towers(or so they say), in order to protect ur freedom, from the terrorists, its our american duty, to bring democracy, and if we dont the terrorists will bomb us again

Now thats one hell of a theory!! the best live example of this is Jerusalem... Christians want it Jews want it Islams Want it... and there we see on the TV each and every day people killing, people dying people mourning and thats all because of religion. And whats funny is that they all believe in the same God... so that makes me wonder all about that heh

It seems that not all agree with the statement and I will be no different. Of course religions can cause wars, especially if they are militant. However, in the concept of religion itself, I don't see anything that has to do with war.

This is just a theory. Not fully on fact. But thats my point that I'm trying to put out there. No one really knows why people kill, martyr, destroy. So why use religion as an excuse? Thats just it. Thats why i have no religion. Religion is an organization of faith to others common beliefs but its only human to question the whole matter. Thats why i remain non-denominational. I put no offense towards anyone but I believe what i believe, others do to. So if I converted to a religion, i would be expected to follow life in a routine direction. I have morals, i have principles, and i have respect towards others, but religion is beginning to become a stereotype.

Man use Religion for many things. I can not believe that with religion man cause war. War is a man thing. War have been created with sick minds of sick people that wants money and power over everything . WIth religion , one have a hope , an ideal world and person to achieve in our journey into this world. I can't believe that without any religion one could live in harmony and in peace. It is not a daily routine like you said but a ideal way to live for.
Some one here siad that in Israel and Palestina region there are always war between each other and with different religions that there are . Take into account histroy where there where no religion but people use to fight with each other in the name of land and prosperity . There wheren't any religion only nations. Same thing happens today after nearly 6000 yrs , people there use to fight with each other for land and prosperity . So it is not a religion matter but an ancient arguments. Also i don't think that there are any solutions to solve these .

Written by Lupas on 21.09.2007 at 15:20

Man use Religion for many things. I can not believe that with religion man cause war. War is a man thing. War have been created with sick minds of sick people that wants money and power over everything . WIth religion , one have a hope , an ideal world and person to achieve in our journey into this world. I can't believe that without any religion one could live in harmony and in peace. It is not a daily routine like you said but a ideal way to live for.
Some one here siad that in Israel and Palestina region there are always war between each other and with different religions that there are . Take into account histroy where there where no religion but people use to fight with each other in the name of land and prosperity . There wheren't any religion only nations. Same thing happens today after nearly 6000 yrs , people there use to fight with each other for land and prosperity . So it is not a religion matter but an ancient arguments. Also i don't think that there are any solutions to solve these .

I agree with your last paragraph. But I really think that religion is counter productive. It gives people a reason to label each other differrently, but on a mass scale. Because in order to become a part of a religion, you have to submit your ethics to fit the template of that following. And often, sadly, religion is used in reference when pointing out flaws in other groups because they are not holy, or spiritually dirty. Religion bastardizes human emotions like hope and love in order to draw people in. I say that because, hope, love and peace, are emotions that are attributed all cultures. Its only human.

And no offense to people who follow the Abrahamic God, but how can you live in peace and harmony if the people that differ from you are going to hell or have no soul? And then we have Revelations, how can no human obsess over these predictions? And I know lots of people who are so OBSESSED with spiritual warfare and fighting satan, it consumes them.

Written by Sunioj on 21.09.2007 at 16:46

Written by Lupas on 21.09.2007 at 15:20

Man use Religion for many things. I can not believe that with religion man cause war. War is a man thing. War have been created with sick minds of sick people that wants money and power over everything . WIth religion , one have a hope , an ideal world and person to achieve in our journey into this world. I can't believe that without any religion one could live in harmony and in peace. It is not a daily routine like you said but a ideal way to live for.
Some one here siad that in Israel and Palestina region there are always war between each other and with different religions that there are . Take into account histroy where there where no religion but people use to fight with each other in the name of land and prosperity . There wheren't any religion only nations. Same thing happens today after nearly 6000 yrs , people there use to fight with each other for land and prosperity . So it is not a religion matter but an ancient arguments. Also i don't think that there are any solutions to solve these .

I agree with your last paragraph. But I really think that religion is counter productive. It gives people a reason to label each other differrently, but on a mass scale. Because in order to become a part of a religion, you have to submit your ethics to fit the template of that following. And often, sadly, religion is used in reference when pointing out flaws in other groups because they are not holy, or spiritually dirty. Religion bastardizes human emotions like hope and love in order to draw people in. I say that because, hope, love and peace, are emotions that are attributed all cultures. Its only human.

But i think that religion helps you to perform it better.

Quote:
And no offense to people who follow the Abrahamic God, but how can you live in peace and harmony if the people that differ from you are going to hell or have no soul?

No man is doomed or burn in hell if he does not have any religion , but with religion one can ans. to several question like why are we suffer, there is any life after this one etc etc

Quote:
And then we have Revelations, how can no human obsess over these predictions? And I know lots of people who are so OBSESSED with spiritual warfare and fighting satan, it consumes them.

why is all ov this even a question?

Written by [user id=160] on 23.09.2007 at 23:42

why is all ov this even a question?

Maybe I should of been clearer, if it looks off topic then I do apologize. Basically, my point was the Religion gives a reason for people to label each other and ultimatley leads to dividing societies based on their beliefs and moral standing. I was basically saying to Lupas that even if Religion is not the cause of war, it certainly IMO doesn't help to bring people together ( on a large scale ). However that is debatable/and or subjective to a persons surroundings.

@Hellraizer: well it actually does bring people together in terms ov like 'brotherhood'......but then again so does Ku Klux Klan, but that doesn't necessarily make it a good thing

Written by Hyvaarin on 19.09.2007 at 04:18

Firstly, inbeforehemlock

Haha, yeah you beat me.

Damn right religion can and does cause wars. That is one reason why I am so opposed to religion. It is controlling, agenda drive bullcrap most of the time. It because a twisting of faith and controls people. Most of the religions in the world have become perversions of what they are supposed to be based on.

i think it isnt exactly the religion what causes the war...it is only one of the masquerades (and this one is really good one) covering human's basic nature - to have more than i currently have

Written by Dane Train on 24.09.2007 at 05:44

Written by Hyvaarin on 19.09.2007 at 04:18

Firstly, inbeforehemlock

Haha, yeah you beat me.

Damn right religion can and does cause wars. That is one reason why I am so opposed to religion. It is controlling, agenda drive bullcrap most of the time. It because a twisting of faith and controls people. Most of the religions in the world have become perversions of what they are supposed to be based on.

I agree, that is correct in most cases I know.

War did happen,before religions are revealed,and it happens and wont stop as long as there are humans on earth,religion? Yes it's related to war,somehow,during history,leaders managed to convince people who are religious and to whom religion means more than life,they managed to convince them that war "is for the glory of God",some rediculous minds,leaders think they are in the position of a "vice-God" they made people think that they are the best to understand religion,those unfortunate ones,could nothing but follow...
Yet religion can serve in the opposite way,not every war caused by religion is a mess,religion can be the link that gathers people under one word to resist their enemy for exemple,to fight back,but when can that happen? Only when every one thinks for himself and understand that his mind works as good as his leaders.
During history,religion,when truly served for its original purposes,had served nations and people to rise,cultures to shine,illusions to get earased,as well as,when mis used,wrongly interpreted religion had done nothing but distruction,and I wont be lying if I say that it is one of the most dangerous things on human exitance.

Written by {aud}devil on 19.09.2007 at 04:05


also, the war in iraq. The american troops are merely aides in reform. The real war is between the sunnis and the shites.

In Iraq, they were having no incisive confliction between Sunnis & Shiites unliss America came and turned that problem on between them. Now they pretend they are staying in Iraq for the sake of solving the problem between Sunni's & Shitties which they are the ones who started it from the first place.


Just like an arabian say, that means, "To kill someone, and walk in his funeral"..... I just get pissed off when they screw facts & pretend like they are standing losses just for the sake of peace, ridiculous indeed.


Regarding your original theory, well, as far as we are looking from the far corner, I'd agree, but as the many guys said, and I am with them, a religion can be another tool, and a useful one, to use for reaching goals, which means it's not the religion's own fault but the mass wrong understanding for it.


There is a point I am afraid of talking about it, because of the fact that I believe that most of people here won't believe me in what I might mention, because I know very well the misunderstanding toward Islam in the world, west world for more, but in short, I was about to say, it's not Religion, it's ReligionS, so I don't know about others really deep, but I know very well about Islam, and somehow a bit ok-ay vesion for Christians, I believe those two are applied in what I stated.


Back to Iraqi war, I remember I read a long article at the time of that tragic war, about a Jew-Christ ideology, called - as been read (pronounced) in Arabic - Meesodeet, those are aiming religious goals in the Iraqi war, but so far, I saw nothing of that but stealing resources & gaining the world's acceptance as the world police man (as if).

Of course religion causes war. One thing that I have major issue with is the belief in life after death. It is an insideous, wretched little belief and I have no doubt that people would be a lot more hesitant to kill eachother if they didn't believe that everybody gets a second chance.

Written by El Vikingo on 25.09.2007 at 05:07

Of course religion causes war. One thing that I have major issue with is the belief in life after death. It is an insideous, wretched little belief and I have no doubt that people would be a lot more hesitant to kill eachother if they didn't believe that everybody gets a second chance.

I'd disagree there. China is officially a totally atheistic nation. The Soviet Union was similarly atheistic. Nazi Germany was not a religious nation. Yet, these three nations have been responsible for killing so many people. Did they kill them because they knew they'd get a second chance? No. They killed them because they stood in their way to power. Hence, wars are not fought for religion, they are fought for power. That is the ultimate reason for war. The secondary reason, the way that governments get popular support for their power wars, is sometimes religion, but to put it specifically on a so-called afterlife is a bit extreme. Sure, suicide bombers reckon they'll be given virgins in heaven for their martyrdom, but really, if they weren't so indoctrinated, I'm willing to wager everything on the fact that they would still be fighting and killing people, simply because they are fighting a power struggle.

What in the hell are you disagreeing with? I never said that all wars are are started because of religion. That would be absurd. Much like you saying that all wars are caused by somebody being on a power trip.

Also, I don't believe for one second that there would still be as many suicide bombers if they didn't believe in their pie in the sky fantasies. Point me in the direction of a group of atheist suicide bombers and I'll change my mind.

Umm...Nazi Germany was indeed a religious nation. Saying anything different is just nutty and I suspect that you may have heard that from some crazy religious propagandist. Hitler's religious feelings are pretty inconclusive (he does make many references to god and was in pretty good with the Catholic Church though), but the country as a whole was definitely overwhelmingly Christian. Christians have a history of abusing the Jews. So, honestly, how do you think Hitler got the idea that the Jews were to be killed? I'd say that the Bible would be a pretty good guess, but if there is any conclusive in any of Hitler's writings let me know.

The Soviet Union was an atheistic state, but they did very much promote their leader to a standing that was very god like. Totalitarian states have a pretty good history of doing that and they are feeding on the same credulity that religion panders to.

Written by El Vikingo on 25.09.2007 at 23:42

What in the hell are you disagreeing with? I never said that all wars are are started because of religion. That would be absurd. Much like you saying that all wars are caused by somebody being on a power trip.

Also, I don't believe for one second that there would still be as many suicide bombers if they didn't believe in their pie in the sky fantasies. Point me in the direction of a group of atheist suicide bombers and I'll change my mind.

Umm...Nazi Germany was indeed a religious nation. Saying anything different is just nutty and I suspect that you may have heard that from some crazy religious propagandist. Hitler's religious feelings are pretty inconclusive (he does make many references to god and was in pretty good with the Catholic Church though), but the country as a whole was definitely overwhelmingly Christian. Christians have a history of abusing the Jews. So, honestly, how do you think Hitler got the idea that the Jews were to be killed? I'd say that the Bible would be a pretty good guess, but if there is any conclusive in any of Hitler's writings let me know.

The Soviet Union was an atheistic state, but they did very much promote their leader to a standing that was very god like. Totalitarian states have a pretty good history of doing that and they are feeding on the same credulity that religion panders to.

I am disagreeing with your statement that belief in the afterlife is inherent in religion-based wars. I can easily say that all wars are caused by someone on a power trip, because it's true! Give me an example of a war, any war, and it'll definitely have started somewhere down the track by someone, usually in an influential position, embarking upon a power trip.

As for atheist suicide bombers, I don't know if any exist, but I know for a fact that the Liberation Tigers for Tamil Eelam (aka Tamil Tigers) were the group that pretty well popularised suicide attacks, and while they are Hindus, they don't blow themselves up because "they know they'll be reincarnated again," they do it because they're brainwashed into thinking it's the best way to "liberate" their people. Religion is again a distant second in terms of motives, at the fore is the strong-arming of the Sri Lankan military and Prabhakaran's (leader of the LTTE) desire to be the ruler of his own state. That is to say, they're after POWER.

Anybody who says, "ALL X is caused by Y" is full of it. Do your homework. The world is more complicated than that.

Also, it's interesting that you mention Sri Lanka beings that the conflict there is strictly between Hindus and Buddhists. It is easy for a Hindu to be a suicide bomber. To think that the idea that they will be reincarnated into a higher caste if they live a 'holy, holy, holy' life (which could include killing for one's religion) is not a good motivation for killing is to be pretty niave. Sure, there are other reasons, but that is certainly an extra incentive AND it cheapens life.