So we're talking pure religion here?
Got nothing against the religion
Got nothing against jews (the ones who practice the religion or the ones just born jewish)
I still say bomb Israel to hell. (No offence to dude from israel)

Written by [user id=5321] on 05.07.2006 at 23:03

Written by [user id=14480] on 05.07.2006 at 21:33

Written by [user id=5321] on 03.07.2006 at 12:42

Written by [user id=14480] on 23.06.2006 at 01:39

Like I said.. There are things beyond our understanding.

I'm just repeating what I heard in school.. They said that it's better if they don't learn it at all.

I think its very sad whats happeing in the US today...
people are loosing there identity.
more jews are "lost" in the US today then in the Holocust in germany.

How so?

Identity of being jewish.
They marry unjewish people (I dont ahve a problem with that...)
and forget there history and culture.
there children will be not jewish.
Thats millions of people in the US that lose they identity.

Ahh.. If the mother is Jewish, the child is Jewish. Even if the children don't know that they're Jewish, they're still Jewish. Just.. without knowing..heh. Maybe someday they'll find out?

I cant see any problems with jews here, other religeos groups are way more annoying.
why would religion be passed on to the next generation ? cant the next generation think for themselfes what to believe and how to think about stuff ? where has freedom of choosing religion gone to? it's incredible that indoctrination is still legal...

@Nifhel; i agree, nuking the whole middle-east would save us a lot of misery, religious discussions and those retards that blow themselves up.

Written by [user id=14480] on 05.07.2006 at 21:36

Written by [user id=14672] on 03.07.2006 at 12:58

In a brief -
My main opinion about judaism , or any religoun at all - It's good as long it is calm and not to takend to an extreme, believeing in god, have some customs and enjoy it .
( Though im not religous at all , atheist all the way ).

When relious is taken to an extreme its horrible , now I have more then 100 examples, but I'll just give you one that somehow really pissed me .

One day after one of the terror attacks that accoured here, on which a 1 years old baby was killed ( murdered to be honest ), his mother and father which are very relious jews- Hasidim, were intreviewed for the news and has been asked about their feelings right now , after their little baby is dead, so what they said - " This is what god wanted for her, this is a part of his big plan, and her's were to day young, she probebly didn't respect him enough and he know's these things" .
And to be honest while hearing those things I felt like going to thier house and kill them after 20 years of torturing ... what the fuck is their problem.

Anyway those fucks ( extreme religous ) also sais the same about the hlocoust , they say this is how god wanted it to be. well fuck you i say.

So, as long as you believe in god, pray for him thats ok, but being an extreme religous person that worship god more then his life themself is being an idiot.

How can they say that their BABY didn't respect God enough? O_o

That is my point, those peaple are complete blind from thier love to god.

Yes very. o_o

What i never understood is how circumcision is supposed to be consistent with the judeo christian ideology of "god made man in his image" ...

Written by [user id=6661] on 06.07.2006 at 00:32

I cant see any problems with jews here, other religeos groups are way more annoying.
why would religion be passed on to the next generation ? cant the next generation think for themselfes what to believe and how to think about stuff ? where has freedom of choosing religion gone to? it's incredible that indoctrination is still legal...

@Nifhel; i agree, nuking the whole middle-east would save us a lot of misery, religious discussions and those retards that blow themselves up.

that was so childish
not everyone wants to blow them selves up... I bet you will find more people that wana blow them selves up outside the middle east.... and nuking the ME would be so stupid... you know how many people from your country are living & working here... and plus it will effect your economy so bad ... since most the oil supply of the world is over here

talking about Judaism...


(not very respetful next my avatar lol...)
An very old "Tehilim book" (Liber Psalmorum?) was found in Ireland latley.
it was writen between 1000-800 before before Christ.

its was writen at the beginning of the middle ages.
Amazing how long it kept and in generally jewish culture liek poems from that time.

i have but one question. i always try and get the right answer but it seems there many views here.

are you BORN a jew and only BORN. in other words YOUR MOM HAS TO BE JEW as a minimum, or both parent strictly or you can join or what? many have given different answers here, so i would appreciate it if the devote jews here (if any) would back up their answer with scripture.

"Being Jewish", is one of the anomolies where you can be born a jew or you can convert to judism.

It is both a religion and a race. I dony believe there is another situation quite like it.

On a personal note, a relative of mine who is jewish maried a catholic whom converted.

I happen to have been born of one jewish parent but believe in christianity.

There are orthodox jews and passive jews. Really confusing.

The one thing that is consistant is that any type of jew seems to be a threat even though they represent only a fraction of world population in any given society!

I'm as i like to call it partially Jewish... my mother is a Jew, but I don't really respect the religious way of determining if you are Jewish or not... They will say that I'm complitly Jewish, cause my mother is Jewshish, but don't care and i'm not ONLY Jewish cause my father is Bulgarian and I respect that just as much... I belive that everybody that has some Jewish blood flowing trough his veins has the right to feel Jewshis or connected to Jewdaism, which for me is more culture than religion... and if anybody that doesn't have any Jewish blood. feels Jewish it's enough for me and I know such people... and from my point of veiw they don't need the religious conversion...

and on asimilation - I don't care... or at least I don't think there is a point in worrying... there are lots and lots of Jews in and outside of Israel and if some of them get asimilated that's teir own choice... I belive they should have the chance to keep thier connection, but if they don't feel like it, they can become one the normal Americans with shallow cultural heritage, it's OK by me... or they can start acting French, English, Polish, Serbian, Bulgarian, Italian, Belgian, Australian or whatever... but they should be aware that when people hate Jews, they don't care if the Jews feel Jewish or not... they just need to know that they have some Jewish blood...

if you can convert to Judaism, then the race dies. no? i need confirmation tha tyou can convert to judaism, and its ways. what you do to become jew? i dont think onversion works in judaism. and i believe there is segregation in between jews. correct me if iam wrong please.but i know that if your 100% jew (mother and father, and moreover your grandparents and more even their grandparents) then your 100% jew. if your father is only jew then your not 100% and if your mother is only jew then you are 100% jew but not totally or whatever. you know.

i read about this once long time ago and couldnt ifnd the article again. someone with enough knowledge on this please inlighten me.

@SETHULHU:First of all you can certainly convert to Judaism. The reason you are confused about it is because unlike the other two monotheistic religions, Judaism is not inclined to peruse conversions actively. However anyone who expresses a wish to become a Jew by religion may do so in accordance with the current religious laws, with the guidance of the official religious figures. I do know some people who went through that. It's not that easy but still possible.

The other thing is that a Jew is someone with a Jewish mother.
A person with a jewfish mother is for all ends and purposes a Jew.
A person with a Jewish father is not a Jew.

In the modern Israeli state a person may be considered Jewish, with less connection to Jewish ancestry (like some grandfather from some side).

so basicaly once someone can convert to sometyhing, the whole RACE thing dies.so youmean to say that jews are not a race anymore since other race can convert to judaism. this is confussing.i thought it is a bloodline AND ONLY BLOODline thing.

This can be a bit confusing. Actually this is one of the major reasons as to why Israel still doesn't have a constitution.

I suggest you make a differentiation between the religion and the nationality (personally, I do not believe in 'races'). It makes it all that much simple.
While it is clear that you can convert to a certain religion you are born with a nationality.

I mean, what do you do to become ethnically Italian? It's not like they are a different race but they do share a certain ancestral heritage, even if they don't actually have an Italian citizenship.

As I've said the whole 'race' thing doesn't make much sense anyways, so the modern state of Israel accepts anyone who has some sort of reasonable connection to Jewish ethnicity (without any grotesque calculations of Jew percentage).

but thay raises the whole ANTI-SEMETIC issue. just saying i hate jews makes you racist because everyone thinks and knows that jews are actually a race rather than just a religion. you get my point?

very interesting point Seth.. if someone says I hate christians you don't automatically think that person is a racist, you might think he's anti-christian but not a rasicst when people saying they hate jews are judged as a racist without a doubt.

Written by SETHULHU on 11.08.2006 at 01:51

i have but one question. i always try and get the right answer but it seems there many views here.

are you BORN a jew and only BORN. in other words YOUR MOM HAS TO BE JEW as a minimum, or both parent strictly or you can join or what? many have given different answers here, so i would appreciate it if the devote jews here (if any) would back up their answer with scripture.

It the mother is jewish.
In christians its the father.
Can you tell me what with Islam?

Judiesm suck like any other religion IMO.

Being jewish is a bit complex...
I look at it as more of being a people, like french or English.
keeping your history and culture is being jewish, having any rights of any other people.

Written by [user id=5321] on 19.08.2006 at 21:38

Written by SETHULHU on 11.08.2006 at 01:51

i have but one question. i always try and get the right answer but it seems there many views here.

are you BORN a jew and only BORN. in other words YOUR MOM HAS TO BE JEW as a minimum, or both parent strictly or you can join or what? many have given different answers here, so i would appreciate it if the devote jews here (if any) would back up their answer with scripture.

It the mother is jewish.
In christians its the father.
Can you tell me what with Islam?

Judiesm suck like any other religion IMO.

Being jewish is a bit complex...
I look at it as more of being a people, like french or English.
keeping your history and culture is being jewish, having any rights of any other people.

actually in christianity you are only a chritian AFTER you have been baptised, and only after that. your father could be a muslim and yet you are a christian cause you where baptised. so in effect in christianity it is not a BLOODLINE like in judaism.

In islam, usually it is ALMOST the same as chritianity, if your father is christian and your mom is muslim and you are following ISLAM (by saying a phrase whihc "makes" you muslim) then you are muslim, so again it is not a BLOODLINE.

in total you can convert to Islam, Christianity, Bhudism, seikhism and any other ism except Judaisn where it is a bloodline. this is as far as i know. and to become part of those ISM, is not through bloodline, rather through acts like baptism for christianity and so forth.

i just needed conformation on the Judaism issue.

Written by SETHULHU on 20.08.2006 at 11:22

Written by [user id=5321] on 19.08.2006 at 21:38

Written by SETHULHU on 11.08.2006 at 01:51

i have but one question. i always try and get the right answer but it seems there many views here.

are you BORN a jew and only BORN. in other words YOUR MOM HAS TO BE JEW as a minimum, or both parent strictly or you can join or what? many have given different answers here, so i would appreciate it if the devote jews here (if any) would back up their answer with scripture.

It the mother is jewish.
In christians its the father.
Can you tell me what with Islam?

Judiesm suck like any other religion IMO.

Being jewish is a bit complex...
I look at it as more of being a people, like french or English.
keeping your history and culture is being jewish, having any rights of any other people.

actually in christianity you are only a chritian AFTER you have been baptised, and only after that. your father could be a muslim and yet you are a christian cause you where baptised. so in effect in christianity it is not a BLOODLINE like in judaism.

In islam, usually it is ALMOST the same as chritianity, if your father is christian and your mom is muslim and you are following ISLAM (by saying a phrase whihc "makes" you muslim) then you are muslim, so again it is not a BLOODLINE.

in total you can convert to Islam, Christianity, Bhudism, seikhism and any other ism except Judaisn where it is a bloodline. this is as far as i know. and to become part of those ISM, is not through bloodline, rather through acts like baptism for christianity and so forth.

i just needed conformation on the Judaism issue.

You got it rong...(from where did you hear its only from bloodline if I can ask?..)

Actually one of our best friends family are converted, you also get an act of ' baptism' its called the 'mikve' in Hebrew, its water and you put the coverted into it.

Have you ever seen "Sex in the big city" (Dont ask why I was watching it..), theres an episode where a girl loves a jewish guy and wants to become jewish to marry him, the funny part is in Judaism you have to try so hard to become jewish till they let you and teach you to be jewish, so she didnt understand the 'tests' of will to become jewish.
She came to the Rabbi and askt him, he ingnored her and cloed the door a few times on her face.

In Judaism none like other religions theres no command to make none jews - jews, or to even try to convert them or anything similar - when you want to become jewish you past a few tests, mostly tets of will of becoming jewish, dosent seem to me easy being jewish and even more being an orthodox jew.

Written by [user id=14480] on 05.07.2006 at 23:56

Written by [user id=5321] on 05.07.2006 at 23:03

Written by [user id=14480] on 05.07.2006 at 21:33

Written by [user id=5321] on 03.07.2006 at 12:42

Written by [user id=14480] on 23.06.2006 at 01:39

Like I said.. There are things beyond our understanding.

I'm just repeating what I heard in school.. They said that it's better if they don't learn it at all.

I think its very sad whats happeing in the US today...
people are loosing there identity.
more jews are "lost" in the US today then in the Holocust in germany.

How so?

Identity of being jewish.
They marry unjewish people (I dont ahve a problem with that...)
and forget there history and culture.
there children will be not jewish.
Thats millions of people in the US that lose they identity.

Ahh.. If the mother is Jewish, the child is Jewish. Even if the children don't know that they're Jewish, they're still Jewish. Just.. without knowing..heh. Maybe someday they'll find out?

Personnaly Im half jewish.
Yeah, they are cases like that, I hear about it from time to time in the news,
some people that were given to monasterys during the WW2 to save them from the nazis, discoverd there jewish roots, some of them even come to live in Israel.

Theres a preist that converted after he discoverd his jewish roots with his family, he lives in my hometown Raanana.

Wierd and sometimes emotional stories.

Written by Angelique on 12.08.2006 at 23:37

very interesting point Seth.. if someone says I hate christians you don't automatically think that person is a racist, you might think he's anti-christian but not a rasicst when people saying they hate jews are judged as a racist without a doubt.

First of all the Jewish people has a history of hate based on religion, then minority and different , and then on 'race'.

In two of the cases it should be considerd racicm, hating somebody for 'what' he is.
And its very un-democratic to hate somebody because of the religion he pratices, in China they kill people that practice kind of religion, even today - Europe and Nations with power - do nothing about it as usual.
just like they did nothing in Sudan and the jewish genocide, its a shame they never learn.

They killed the Communists, I didnt really care because im not one.
They killed the jews, I didnt really care because im not one.
They killed the Gypsys, I didnt really care because im not one.

Now there after me, and there no one to tell them to stop.

Saddly Another part of being Jewish in the Holocust, it isnt Important to remmember it because iot was a jewish genocide, but to avoid more of them in the future and too remmeber how tribble it is.
Something that most of the world, still dosent understand.

Written by [user id=5321] on 20.08.2006 at 11:59

Written by Angelique on 12.08.2006 at 23:37

very interesting point Seth.. if someone says I hate christians you don't automatically think that person is a racist, you might think he's anti-christian but not a rasicst when people saying they hate jews are judged as a racist without a doubt.

First of all the Jewish people has a history of hate based on religion, then minority and different , and then on 'race'.

In two of the cases it should be considerd racicm, hating somebody for 'what' he is.
And its very un-democratic to hate somebody because of the religion he pratices, in China they kill people that practice kind of religion, even today - Europe and Nations with power - do nothing about it as usual.
just like they did nothing in Sudan and the jewish genocide, its a shame they never learn.

They killed the Communists, I didnt really care because im not one.
They killed the jews, I didnt really care because im not one.
They killed the Gypsys, I didnt really care because im not one.

Now there after me, and there no one to tell them to stop.

Saddly Another part of being Jewish in the Holocust, it isnt Important to remmember it because iot was a jewish genocide, but to avoid more of them in the future and too remmeber how tribble it is.
Something that most of the world, still dosent understand.

Look SETH it's really not that difficult. There is a religion called Judaism, and there is an ethnicity that goes by the same name.
In the context of the modern Jewish country you might regard it as a nationality.

Anyways, I really think we all should omit the word 'race' from this discussion. We are all human beings, not farm animals. besides, race has lost its popularity even in the context of modern biology. However that is a point for a different thread.

I think this is one of the key questions of the entire anti-semitism problem. Is judaism an ethnicity or a religion?

One is open to general criticism, the other is most certainly not. And then when you mix up into it the idea of Israel as a jewish state, which is certainly open to criticism as are all states, the whole thing just gets very complex, And that's even without bringin the idea of Israeli nationality as being disinct from belonging to the jewish religion. For example:

Is it being critical of the Jewish race (which is racist) to question the right of israel to exist in it's current form and borders, or is it critical of the israeli state (not racist in the slightest)?
Is it anti-israeli or is it anti-semitic to make unfavourable generalizations about israelis?
Is it anti-semitic to criticize the religion without being prejudiced against the ethnicity?

These are just off the top of my head, to illustrate the intricacies and controversies inherent in the issue.

And i think this is exactly the thread for this discussion, as there doesn't seem to be much else that people are wanting to talk about here, and creating another thread just makes keeping coherent debate going very hard indeed.

There's something that bothers me in this anti-semitic thing, i know the history and I know why it was neccessity to criminalize such a movement but it still bothers me. See, I have nothing against Jewish people, how could I, I don't actually even know many (jewish community in Finland is rather small) I don't actually even have anything against Judaism, well at least more against than any other organized religion so I don't have a need to criticize neither of them but I still find it quite odd that in case I would and I'd go for it, I would commit a crime.. Okay, the problem comes if I'd give same criticism for any other religion or nationality, I can hate and talk shit about americans, swedes, christians, arabs, pagans, satanists etc. etc. I can go ape shit on any of them and it would be totally okay, I mean it's the freedom of speech, you're allowed to have opinions.. except about jewish people, I don't get that.

And the sad thing is that I've seen this happened so many times during past month.. I tell you, I have strongly criticized US' gov and even americans, I have criticized christians and christiany heavily, I have criticized this and that but only when I criticized the gov of state of Israel I was judged as a racist pig.. anti-semite.. I don't think that's very fair and I don't think that's right.. so I honestly don't get this whole anti-semitic issue, I do know it still is a real problem with this neo-nazism etc. but I personally feel very offended when I'm called a racist, I'm sick and tired of it.. might sound harsh but sometimes I wonder how many decades rest of the world and the new generations will have to try to make up for holocaust.

i am of one mind with you there anglique, which is partly what i tried to express in more couched terms in my post, and it's the willful ignorance of many of the disctinctions between Israel's government, the israeli people, judaism and the jewish ethnic group that causes these accusations of racism to be flung around.

Personally i am a comitted anti-fascist communist, and yet multiple times in the past i've been accused of antisemitism, as i think almost anyone of non-neo-conservative persuasion has experienced, and it's truly a huge problem. It's used often as a device to delfect very pertinent criticism of israeli policy, which has led to many prominent workers for civil liberties and human rights to become silent in the face of abuses in israel out of fear of being branded an antisemite. It is becoming a dangerous problem, and one that needs to be solved once and for all.

I want to point out one more thing, I think prejudice and hostility against any religious, ethnic, or racial group is wrong and should be criminalized as strictly as anti-semitism but like Frosty said, it has became a weapon to silent any kind of criticism against anything that has something to do with jews and that's not fair nor healthy, If there isn't criticism there's no progress.

Written by Angelique on 26.08.2006 at 04:23

I want to point out one more thing, I think prejudice and hostility against any religious, ethnic, or racial group is wrong and should be criminalized as strictly as anti-semitism but like Frosty said, it has became a weapon to silent any kind of criticism against anything that has something to do with jews and that's not fair nor healthy, If there isn't criticism there's no progress.

"I think prejudice and hostility against any religious, ethnic, or racial group"
No...There should be clear lines what should pass and what is just hate\dis-respect.
I dont see a reason why Judaism couold not be critique like any other, or the jewish community.
'Shhita' is an old jewish Tradition and is dissaloud in many countrys in Europe.
Its an act taht you kill the animal by its neck with a very sharp knife, and tahts the only way food can be kosher.
fair? not fair? could be interesting talking about it.

Thats rong "silent any kind of criticism", because there is standarts, clear ones, about how far legitimate criticism can go.
and can you be more specific?

At the end you see people's true faces after a while.
Like the user Bluecifer, that it seems he hates Israel because his country has a bad economy and they come to Israel to workm, and some Israel treats foreign workers like shit.
THo I never herd of 'water limitation' because theres taps you can freely drink from n the street every where...

I also had a debat with some English guy...He really hated Israel.
his father lost a business deal to some Israeli, lol

Written by [user id=5321] on 26.08.2006 at 20:40

Thats rong "silent any kind of criticism", because there is standarts, clear ones, about how far legitimate criticism can go.
and can you be more specific?

Yes, I can be more spesific but you'll need to go back and read your own posts. You are one who represent this kind of judging so you should know, you're the one calling everyone anti-semite who can't accept certain acts of State of Israel , judging all kind of information except pro-Israel material anti-semite propaganda. That's exactly what it is, racist and very black and white attitude to anything except your own point of view.. you're eagar to silent the criticism towards Israel gov by calling it anti-semite, so yeah I can be more spesific but like I said, you need to go re-read your own posts.

Written by Angelique on 26.08.2006 at 23:46

Written by [user id=5321] on 26.08.2006 at 20:40

Thats rong "silent any kind of criticism", because there is standarts, clear ones, about how far legitimate criticism can go.
and can you be more specific?

Yes, I can be more spesific but you'll need to go back and read your own posts. You are one who represent this kind of judging so you should know, you're the one calling everyone anti-semite who can't accept certain acts of State of Israel , judging all kind of information except pro-Israel material anti-semite propaganda. That's exactly what it is, racist and very black and white attitude to anything except your own point of view.. you're eagar to silent the criticism towards Israel gov by calling it anti-semite, so yeah I can be more spesific but like I said, you need to go re-read your own posts.

Show me a post where I said everybopdy are anti-semite.
They are things that make opinions anti-smite.

European Monitoring Centre on Racism and Xenophobia (EUMC)
part of the Council of Europe, tried to define more clearly the relationship between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism.

# Denying the Jewish people the right to self-determination, e.g. by claiming that the existence of a state of Israel is a racist endeavor;
# Applying double standards by requiring of Israel a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation;
# Using the symbols and images associated with classic anti-Semitism (e.g. claims of Jews killing Jesus or blood libel) to characterize Israel or Israelis;
# Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis;
# Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the State of Israel.

Natan Sharansky

Natan Sharansky, a Soviet Refusenik and former Likud cabinet minister, writes that anti-Semitism masquerading as anti-Zionism can be distinguished from legitimate criticism of Israel if it fails the
"3D" test:

* The first D is the test of demonization. ... Jews were demonized for centuries as the embodiment of evil. Therefore, today we must be wary of whether the Jewish state is being demonized by having its actions blown out of all sensible proportion. For example, the comparisons of Israelis to Nazis and of the Palestinian refugee camps to Auschwitz ... can only be considered anti-Semitic ...

* The second D is the test of double standards. For thousands of years a clear sign of anti-Semitism was treating Jews differently than other peoples, from the discriminatory laws many nations enacted against them to the tendency to judge their behavior by a different yardstick. Similarly, today we must ask whether criticism of Israel is being applied selectively ... It is anti-Semitism, for instance, when Israel is singled out by the United Nations for human rights abuses while tried and true abusers like China, Iran, Cuba, and Syria are ignored. Likewise, it is anti-Semitism when Israel's Magen David Adom, alone among the world's ambulance services, is denied admission to the International Red Cross.

* The third D is the test of delegitimation. In the past, anti-Semites tried to deny the legitimacy of the Jewish religion, the Jewish people, or both. Today, they are trying to deny the legitimacy of the Jewish state, presenting it, among other things, as the last vestige of colonialism. While criticism of an Israeli policy may not be anti-Semitic, the denial of Israel's right to exist is always anti-Semitic. If other peoples have a right to live securely in their homelands, then the Jewish people have a right to live securely in their homeland ...


Now...dont sit on my head with it, "calling everybody anti-semite.." I told you already.
wanna read about it more?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Anti-Semitism