Been away from these forums for a while. I came after hearing the new album to see if people were excited to hear Nightwish finally making good music again, but found all this hate and baseless comments. Sigh.

Nothing to see here I guess. Would be cool to have a discussion about the actual music and not about how mad people still are because Tarja is gone or how much they hate Tuomas. Things that have nothing to do with the music.

"They should be more metal" "They should have more guitars" "They shouldn't add folk elements" "They shouldn't write about this or that" Jesus.

For me, they were a complete mess after Once. Releasing albums that had one or two great songs and a bunch of fillers. Human Nature is the first good album they had put out in years, very different from the last 2. Objectively more heavy and operatic than anything in DPP or Endless. They brought back that original sound and even got rid of the symphonic elements for the most part (Yet, some comments said they hate the album because it is too symphonic ).

Oh well, I'll come back for the actual review.

Written by beatlotus on 13.04.2020 at 02:37

Been away from these forums for a while. I came after hearing the new album to see if people were excited to hear Nightwish finally making good music again, but found all this hate and baseless comments. Sigh.

Nothing to see here I guess. Would be cool to have a discussion about the actual music and not about how mad people still are because Tarja is gone or how much they hate Tuomas. Things that have nothing to do with the music.

"They should be more metal" "They should have more guitars" "They shouldn't add folk elements" "They shouldn't write about this or that" Jesus.

Like it has been mentioned before I found the debate about the album pretty civil (the last couple of posts did make an end to that unfortunately).

Honestly I think most people that posted here are not "mad" that Tarja left. That's been so long ago and I feel like that has been put to rest. Dismissing peoples criticism on the basis of self-invented reason is not great to have a good debate about an album.

Again I don't think that people are still mad about Tarja. Even more so since Floor joined the band years ago. She's easily the best of the three singers, since she's more versatile than Annette or Tarja. Don't get me wrong I liked the other 2 as well, but yeah I think Floor is the best one.

However, music wise... I can't say I enjoyed the last 2 albums as much as some of their other stuff. If I'm honest, I don't hear the big divergence between this record and Endless Forms Most Beautiful. In fact this often sounds (especially production wise) like Endless Forms Part 2. Only blander this time. I don't know to each their own but like I said in my initial thoughts, I don't feel any excitement when listening to this album.

--"They should be more metal" "They should have more guitars" "They shouldn't add folk elements" "They shouldn't write about this or that" Jesus.--

I mean, those are opinions people have brought up. And those opinions can have valid criticism in them. Looking at my own of this album. Should they be more metal? Yes... and no... pick one or the other but like I said this record feels like it wants to be inbetween and personally I find that rarely satisfying when bands do that.

And folk elements? Again a valid criticism if someone doesn't like those, then you have every right to express that. And songwriting... I mean, maybe I looked over it but I haven't seen anyone express the opinion of "they shouldn't write about that", I did see people commenting (myself included) on how the writing comes over as selfindulgent and a bit pretentious. That's not saying they can't write about the topics they've chosen, just that it could have been delivered in a different way.

It is definetly sounds better than previous album, it is more metal and it is more Nightwish.
They are also seems to get best from Floors vocal on this one, what else would you expect form the modern Nightwish?
Yeah there is no guitar solos on the album - however I can not remember they made any good solo since Wishmaster.
Are you expecting another Wishmaster? - forget about it.

(c) Jesus

As with everything it just comes down to personal taste :p I mean its not a debate about musicianship here i think. Tuomas writes what hes interested in at the time. Last album that was clearly evolution and creation of the universe and all that. Now it seems to have shifted more towards the human element in all of this. Everyones mind works different, and i dont find what he writes pretenious at all. He explains it perfectly in the short vid where he talks about what 'Hows the heart' is about. That we have such great potential as a species, weve accomplished great thingd already but there is a lot of room for improvement yet, empathy being one of those thigns. Hes not wrong imo.

Nope, this is not my cup of coffee. overproduced, too many folk elements, too blend, uninspiring and boring. this should actually be a solo project of Tuomas. he didn't let his mates do their best job, just put them into take it or leave it position. their skills and abilities left idle. if all parts I really like were cut into one coherent piece, it would be max 5 minutes long... the second CD can't be considered as regular music but filmscore at best. I fully agree with an opinion written somewhere in this discussion it was a bad decision to get Troy as a regular member. his presence shifts the band's sound into waters I never wanted to float in but who am I? the boss decided and we have to face it. he doesn't have to be worried though - he will be acquiring new fans loving folk and pure symphonic music along with losing many hardcore fans loving power- and heavymetal including me. it's still only showbiz after all...

What the hack I just listened, I think Floor should leave the band and start Re Vamp, or new band Wishnight make great composers and she will sucksess. This is well band wants go in same direction as previous one , but its let down. All was softer, for older people, nothing worked, few good ideas, but they are waisted. Like I said Best NW albums was Firts one and Prevois one, what is between never will reach those 2, but this. Hmmm.... seems band needs go to finish forest, catch a fishm make it on bone fire, grill some ''makara'' asl Risto what it means, he knows. Drink some beer, do hippy jambo mambo, and remember old good think that no food whit out meat.
Totally let down to me, not even listened CD2. Desapointed I am

Written by Bad English on 13.04.2020 at 15:19

[...] and she will sucksess.

Neologism of the year so far.

But what are you trying to say?
That she will suck despite of her previous success? Or that she will succeed even though she does suck?

Written by Starvynth on 13.04.2020 at 16:56

Written by Bad English on 13.04.2020 at 15:19

[...] and she will sucksess.

Neologism of the year so far.

But what are you trying to say?
That she will suck despite of her previous success? Or that she will succeed even though she does suck?

I think she will make better music as she decide who will compose it, we all know Thoumas do it in NW, she is good singer, she can play music between old NW , ReVamp and old AF and get more success in metal , because if NW sounds like this, where they can go next after 2 albums? You never know.

Definitely the worst Nightwish album. There is little to no variety, and the album drags on for what feels like hours. I really enjoyed the previous album, but this is pretty bad. Very well produced, but the writing and absurd length really hampers this one.

Written by Irritable Ted on 11.04.2020 at 09:21

Written by mikeprado30 on 11.04.2020 at 02:37

What the hell do you want from Nightwish to create, guys?

When you look at all of the Nightwish albums up to DPP. All After Forever albums, current Delain, Seven Spires, Epica, then listen to this album, you realise how bland and lifeless it is.

The addition of Troy as a full time member has been a mistake. The whole sound has been shaped around adding his vocals or pipes to every song. I didn't mind one or two tracks to add variety, but this is now constant.

I think now they need to strip out a lot of the pretentiousness and move closer to a metal sound. Lose Troy. Lose the folk in the majority of songs. Lose the hippy lyrics. Make a simpler album. One with memorable choruses. One with guitars at the forefront. Riffs that stick in your head. More use of Marco's vocals. Better use of Floor's range.

Does that answer the question?

Well, it's your perception, and that shouldn't be the same for everyone (even if it's for some majority on this website, I think most commonly as a trend).

For myself this album keeps still some of the excellent elements that hooked me into Nightwish some years ago, and I definitively haven't heart to say that their music is lifeless or something lesser, because for myself is the opposite, their music has so many energy and life in every note.

I loved when Troy did enter to the band and I love so much everyone of his worthy contributions.

Anyway, definitively this album is not for you, but that doesn't mean it's a bad effort, and surely many people aside myself is enjoying it so much

Written by Cynic Metalhead on 11.04.2020 at 09:33

Pretty much covered by The Shape 1973.

For me, they should disband.

Well, it's up to you. Undoubtedly this album is also not for you, but I insist, that DOESN'T MEAN it's a bad album. What is trash for you other people will value it so much (I know people that loves St. Anger, to say an example).

Written by RaduP on 12.04.2020 at 22:16

I would like to add that anyone who disagrees with me is wrong and should be ashamed of themselves.

Yeah, whatever, owner of the truth

Written by mikeprado30 on 13.04.2020 at 23:13

Written by Irritable Ted on 11.04.2020 at 09:21

Written by mikeprado30 on 11.04.2020 at 02:37

What the hell do you want from Nightwish to create, guys?

When you look at all of the Nightwish albums up to DPP. All After Forever albums, current Delain, Seven Spires, Epica, then listen to this album, you realise how bland and lifeless it is.

The addition of Troy as a full time member has been a mistake. The whole sound has been shaped around adding his vocals or pipes to every song. I didn't mind one or two tracks to add variety, but this is now constant.

I think now they need to strip out a lot of the pretentiousness and move closer to a metal sound. Lose Troy. Lose the folk in the majority of songs. Lose the hippy lyrics. Make a simpler album. One with memorable choruses. One with guitars at the forefront. Riffs that stick in your head. More use of Marco's vocals. Better use of Floor's range.

Does that answer the question?

Well, it's your perception, and that shouldn't be the same for everyone (even if it's for some majority on this website, I think most commonly as a trend).

For myself this album keeps still some of the excellent elements that hooked me into Nightwish some years ago, and I definitively haven't heart to say that their music is lifeless or something lesser, because for myself is the opposite, their music has so many energy and life in every note.

I loved when Troy did enter to the band and I love so much everyone of his worthy contributions.

Anyway, definitively this album is not for you, but that doesn't mean it's a bad effort, and surely many people aside myself is enjoying it so much

Written by Cynic Metalhead on 11.04.2020 at 09:33

Pretty much covered by The Shape 1973.

For me, they should disband.

Well, it's up to you. Undoubtedly this album is also not for you, but I insist, that DOESN'T MEAN it's a bad album. What is trash for you other people will value it so much (I know people that loves St. Anger, to say an example).

Is Nightwish paying you to praise every little thing they do?

Written by JoHn Doe on 13.04.2020 at 23:16



Is Nightwish paying you to praise every little thing they do?

Nope, it's myself having an own criteria, something that it seems so rare to see around this place Or nowadays is a sin to like music that an entitled majority (hugely the most people doing it as a trend) rejects because "not tr00 metal"?

Written by mikeprado30 on 13.04.2020 at 23:19

Written by JoHn Doe on 13.04.2020 at 23:16



Is Nightwish paying you to praise every little thing they do?

Nope, it's myself having an own criteria, something that it seems so rare to see around this place Or nowadays is a sin to like music that an entitled majority (hugely the most people doing it as a trend) rejects because "not tr00 metal"?

so you just talk nonsense.
Entitled majority? I don't know what you mean in this context.
I've never followed trends, never will. So, no...
true metal? There is no such thing, again, no...

I don't enjoy symphonic metal much, I'll give you that, but I do like Therion, Theli is one of my favorite albums; the Tarja albums of Nightwish are at least interesting and entertaining. I also enjoy Delain, they are fun to listen to at least.

Funny you talk about trends, just look at how many sympho-metal bands are out there, most sounding more or lesss the same...

Written by mikeprado30 on 13.04.2020 at 23:19

Written by JoHn Doe on 13.04.2020 at 23:16



Is Nightwish paying you to praise every little thing they do?

Nope, it's myself having an own criteria, something that it seems so rare to see around this place.

Wrong.

Everyone has own criteria in judging a record and expressing fluently on forums. You are just one of them.

Back on topic, finally this record garnered the attention fangirls wanted to. Still, a terrible record.

Rofl. Same discussions as 10+ years ago. Because 'you' dont like it, doesnt make it a bad album. Its just not your type of music, and thats fine. But to come here and say a band is shit because their current sound doesnt appeal to you .. In that case, i could say Slayer is a dogshit band, inc deathtreats for saying something like that probably ... Its just simply not my thing. This new album is tho. Nightwish is still around after 2 decades cus they are amazing at what they do. They change their sound, they will gain some fans, they might lose some fans. Its all personal taste ( < I missed that emote)

Written by Etaín on 14.04.2020 at 00:18

Rofl. Same discussions as 10+ years ago. Because 'you' dont like it, doesnt make it a bad album. Its just not your type of music, and thats fine. But to come here and say a band is shit because their current sound doesnt appeal to you .. In that case, i could say Slayer is a dogshit band, inc deathtreats for saying something like that probably ... Its just simply not my thing. This new album is tho. Nightwish is still around after 2 decades cus they are amazing at what they do. They change their sound, they will gain some fans, they might lose some fans. Its all personal taste ( < I missed that emote)

Because i don't like it it means I don't like it so I'm not gonna waste any more time with it.
Whatever they are dong now does not appeal to me, it was a frustrating listen, I don't have time for that, it's like someone pointed out above, they don't know what they want to be.

I wouldn't call Slayer dogshit, but their last great album was in 1990. The only later day album of theirs that I like is World Painted Blood.

The Nightwish that I enjoy is no longer present here. I'm done...

Written by JoHn Doe on 14.04.2020 at 00:29

...
The Nightwish that I enjoy is no longer present here. I'm done...

Now I tell you a great news, the Nightwish already wasn't being there since 2004. All happened after 2004 it is a modern Nightwish.

Written by Litvin on 14.04.2020 at 01:36

Written by JoHn Doe on 14.04.2020 at 00:29

...
The Nightwish that I enjoy is no longer present here. I'm done...

Now I tell you a great news, the Nightwish already wasn't being there since 2004. All happened after 2004 it is a modern Nightwish.

you are right, my bad, I don't know what I was thinking...

Not a terrible record by any stretch. I enjoyed it for the most part, but still felt like they're a lot better than this.

Skipping 2015's Endless Forms finally proved rewarding for me. Now I could witness its first song single-handedly owning this entire album.

Everyone stop voting now. The average rating is 6.66

It's fascinating how personally everyone takes other's differing opinions of someone else's band personally and tank a discussion.

As for my opinion: Meh. The more I thought about it after reading someone's opinion here, I have to agree that I just don't care for Troy. Weird, because Imaginaerum is probably top two NW albums for me (other being Century Child), but these last two albums have been more of a decline than memorable. I had such high hopes that this would be Imaginaerum 2.0 for Floor after hearing Noise, but I'm just disappointed.

Written by ScottyM on 14.04.2020 at 18:21

It's fascinating how personally everyone takes other's differing opinions of someone else's band personally and tank a discussion.

Finally! Someone said it. You used the word "personally" twice but it's okay, it gives emphasis.

Written by nikarg on 14.04.2020 at 17:13

Everyone stop voting now. The average rating is 6.66

It's on 6.65 now - some bastard gave it a negative score!

Written by musclassia on 14.04.2020 at 20:40

Written by nikarg on 14.04.2020 at 17:13

Everyone stop voting now. The average rating is 6.66

It's on 6.65 now - some bastard gave it a negative score!

well, maybe if you change your rating to 10 it will help

Written by ickoriss on 09.04.2020 at 07:17

Written by Ellinor on 08.04.2020 at 19:01

I just watched Tuomas answer fan questions (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6fDUK1xM3Y).

At one point, he said that he's not listening to music anymore. And honestly, I think that says a lot about Nightwish these days. The guy behind the wheel is not passionate about the music as he was (to say the least) and it tells.

He's apparently more into podcasts. Which pretty much explains themes on the last two albums. It seems he prefers talking about evolution and cosmos to writing music. A brilliant musician reduced to a pop science fan.

That is fucking tragic and heartbreaking to hear. I used to idolize him so much as a composer and the ringleader of the band.

Actually, his interests date way back. Many don't know that he actually got in into a uni (highly competitive in Finland) to study biology (and actually did 1-2 years of studies) but dropped it as Nightwish took on.
Floor may have something to do with it too, because, as a child, she wanted to become a biologists, so the themes and motives may be due to deep personal interests and not just from a few podcasts.

Written by Clushje on 10.04.2020 at 16:45

Easily their weakest album. Pan and Endlessness were probably the best tracks on there, I can see others like Shoemaker and Harvest being growers, but Noise was the only track with a melodic hook that really sticks (on the merit of ripping off the GoT theme). No interesting riffs to be heard and Floor could be replaced with anyone else since her vocal talents just weren't required for the music that was written here. My rating is for disc 1 only, otherwise it'd be even lower...

Floor goes through all of her range on the album (most of it already in Music), and, no average singer could pull out what she did. The singing style e.g. in Music is highly technical and demanding, those interval jumps with that kind of precision in timing and pitch is insane. She has never done something similar in Nightwish and nothing similar was ever written for Tarja or Annette.

She does strong belting, lower range in Noise, higher e.g. in How's the Heart (very close to the legendary ending of GLS). There is high operatic, the clearest in the final part of Shoemaker and I'd like to know whether she actually goes higher on the album than D6 in the Phantom (with Henk Poort) or F6 of Romanticide.
Some growling etc e.g. in Tribal.

Then add all the rhytmic cahnges e.g. in How's the Heart, not an easy task either. Very demanding, technical singing can sound easy, effortless.

There is more to difficult, technical singing than just high operatic, (high) hc belting and some growls.

Written by Irritable Ted on 11.04.2020 at 09:21

Written by mikeprado30 on 11.04.2020 at 02:37

What the hell do you want from Nightwish to create, guys?

When you look at all of the Nightwish albums up to DPP. All After Forever albums, current Delain, Seven Spires, Epica, then listen to this album, you realise how bland and lifeless it is.

The addition of Troy as a full time member has been a mistake. The whole sound has been shaped around adding his vocals or pipes to every song. I didn't mind one or two tracks to add variety, but this is now constant.

I think now they need to strip out a lot of the pretentiousness and move closer to a metal sound. Lose Troy. Lose the folk in the majority of songs. Lose the hippy lyrics. Make a simpler album. One with memorable choruses. One with guitars at the forefront. Riffs that stick in your head. More use of Marco's vocals. Better use of Floor's range.

Does that answer the question?

Funny to say that. Floor basically goes through her entire range on the album, sings at least in 4-5 totally different styles from clean, head voice operatic to lower and higher belting, more poppish, highly demanding and technical melismatic style e.g. in Music etc, so I wonder whether I've been listening to the same album or whether it's just a question of what one considers - or knows - to be demanding, technical singing requiring a lot or talent, skill and training.

Marco is lead in one song, just like Troy. But he's there, backing, already in Music. Marco is by the way the one who polished all the harmonics, so if you can't really hear him, talk Marco about it.

Guitar is the most prominent instrument in the album and there are some insane riffs. Drums used a lot too and according to interviews, Tuomas gave Kai some liberties.

Listen it a couple of times and before you know it, How's the Heart, chorus of Music etc start to play in one's head.

Written by Furiator on 11.04.2020 at 17:16

Written by RaduP on 10.04.2020 at 21:09

Crazy how Floor is the best vocalist that they've ever had, but the albums with her are their worst.

Funny because I think she influences the way this album feels a lot. Obviously, I think Floor is one of the best vocalists, puts a hell of a show live, BUT I can't help but feel that this album would be better with Anette as a vocalist xD Don't kill me. With her voice, perhaps the same songs would sound less generic, and more magical, like for example Eva. What do you guys think?

Except that Annette probably couldn't sing them, except for Harvest and maybe How's the Heart and even in that one with less high, strong belting.
Most of it is actually extremely demanding and technical singing. It's not just always so high, so strong etc, but in some bits it cannot even be, because the tempo is so fast. The faster the notation, the lighter it has to be, longer notes can be sung in a different way. Such interval jumps, descending chromatic scales etc have never been written before in Nightwish songs.