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What genre are System of a Down?



Posts: 53   Visited by: 186 users

Original post

Posted by , 29.05.2014 - 19:42
Self explanatory question. SoaD have long defied easy classification and am I'm curious to know what the general MS population thinks they are.

Keep comments related to the question (in other words no "System of a Down are shit metal heeeerrp deeerrrrp" nonsense.)

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My opinion in the subject (taken from here if anyone wants to see them in context):

"Nu metal" was coined by a Kerrang! journalist I believe.

Influence doesn't define a band's genre, nor does its image. The music does. SoaD may incorporate a variety of influences including punk, world music, possibly some minor hip-hop and rap and so on, but the result is unequivocally metal. The last 2 albums may be regarded as alternative rock but the first 3 are quintessentially alternative metal, for the simple reason it isn't primarily rock, it isn't grunge, nor is it hip-hop, rap, punk or anything else when looking at it from the simplest angle. Deduction and weighing up what is in front of you leads to the obvious conclusion, and in SoaD's case I don't think it's ever been much of a challenge coming to a conclusion that the generally shaky umbrella term "alternative metal" suits them almost ideally, especially when compared to other nu metal acts like Limp Bizkit, Korn and Linkin Park.

Furthermore, what bands think their music is is of no consequence. If it was the case then Children of Bodom would be black metal.

As for their Nu Metal image, I'm pretty sure they dropped that after the s/t. All the single videos from Toxicity were them dressed in pretty standard attire. No silly make-up etc.

As for other bands using Nu Metal traits: Korn had Follow The Leader which was heavily hip-hop laden, and possibly Life is Peachy in fact. How they became so associated with famous rappers. P.O.D. also rapped in a lot of their music if I recall, and Slipknot did indeed use turntables, quite a bit in fact, it was part of their sound. The DJ from Slipknot has his own project called DJ Starscream (I think). Corey was also considered to use a somewhat rap-like style as well. SoaD generally does not use any of these traits, like the bands mentioned here, along with Linkin Park, Limp Bizkit etc. and should be differentiated.

Deftones ceased to be Nu Metal after their first album, and the likes of Disturbed and Godsmack I don't believe are largely regarded as Nu Metal in this day and age. As for Sevendust and Drowning Pool, I don't know how associated they were with Nu Metal but these days I don't believe they are, though I would have to check up on that. This serves as an example of how bands legitimately break away from Nu Metal roots and cease to be associated with it, even if they were part of the scene and highlights how a band's style is not incumbent on their beginnings or associations.

In reality then, the only thing that keep SoaD within the Nu Metal umbrella is their early image and time of inception as well as some locational factors. I'm generally not into revisionism but in this instance believe it's more than fine to re-assess them on musical merits. No one should debate whether or not they were part of a scene, in this case Nu Metal; we're all well aware that they were, I am simply pointing out that applying a standard which was nothing more than overzealous marketing by Kerrang! and other publications 15 years ago shouldn't remain today when we can take a more balanced look at their style and sound, which I believe puts SoaD somewhere other than Nu Metal which does not suitably represent their music.

I don't think one can regard Nu Metal as a broad umbrella term either, as it's generally accepted that it's part and parcel of alternative metal and rock's tapestry, which itself is one of the biggest and vaguest umbrella terms of them all. Nu Metal's characteristics are easy to define, whereas Alternative Metal is not, hence why SoaD could ideally belong in that cat. While all Nu Metal bands are Alternative Metal, not all Alternative Metal bands are Nu Metal.


Quote:
Personally to me saying SOAD are prog metal (and ostensibly alternative metal, rock or anything else - !J.O.O.E.!) and not Nu-metal is like saying Black Sabbath were Doom. It's retrospective reassignment based on current values and not reflecting the actual historical and overall stylistic context.



Aside from the obvious observation that the style does not allude to Nu Metal, my opinion is quite different. Sabbath were seen as precursors to a sound which is applied in a retrospective fashion because numerous bands adopted it in to what is regarded as "doom" today whereas System were simply lumped in with a scene with little regard to their sound which didn't lend itself to something which had already been established. In this instance the current values, i.e. the analysis of their music, is more valid than a simple history lesson which basically highlights record labels dressing them up in a particular way to fit a movement. It's entirely ridiculous to use that as the key basis of their historical (and future) categorisation. They were part of the Nu Metal scene, but they weren't Nu Metal. That is what history should read. Mercyful Fate may have been considered part of the black metal scene, but only a dummy would call them black metal these days (proto-black perhaps). Effectively the same thing, though not exactly

I suppose I should state, as some others like to allude, that I'm not biased because of a dislike of Nu Metal. In fact I really enjoy Nu Metal as a whole so my opinions are not based on bias in that respect.

Poll

What genre are System of a Down?

Alternative Metal
67
Nu Metal
51
Alternative Rock
4
Progressive Metal
2
Other (please specify)
2

Total votes: 126
28.06.2014 - 16:28
Karlabos
Meat and Potatos
Written by M C Vice on 27.06.2014 at 07:05

Avant-garde synthpop.

That doesn't sound bad. I'd listen to SOAD if it was the case
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28.06.2014 - 19:59
Mattybu

According to Scott Ian, Toxicity is also a "straight up thrash metal record". Cool story, Scott Ian.
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29.06.2014 - 18:43
Ganondox

Written by M C Vice on 27.06.2014 at 07:05

Avant-garde synthpop.


They are so avant-garde they don't even use synths.
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30.06.2014 - 03:52
Ganondox

Written by deadone on 30.06.2014 at 03:16

Didn't the band themselves once say they thought of themselves are essentially a pop band?


Yeah, here's the quote: "As far as arrangement and everything, [our music] is pretty much pop. To me, System of a Down isn't a progressive band. [...] But it's not a typical pop project, obviously. We definitely pay attention to the music to make sure that it's not something someone's heard before."
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07.08.2014 - 16:54
Aristarchos

Written by Ganondox on 27.06.2014 at 16:09

Well of course I wasn't referring to bands like Witchfinder General, just the ones associated with speed metal, the ones which took punk influence and played faster, paving the way for thrash and power metal. Pretty much what is described in that article.

I meant how to technically do it on this site, but thanks for the advice, I'll keep that in mind for the future.


I think speed metal was more influenced by faster songs by bands like Deep Purple, Budgie, Queen, Judas Priest and Motörhead than by punk. About writing articles: click on publications - articles - add article.
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07.08.2014 - 16:55
Aristarchos

Take Fireball, Highway Star, Breadfan, Stone Cold Crazy, Exciter and Overkill as some examples.
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08.08.2014 - 07:52
Ganondox

Written by Aristarchos on 07.08.2014 at 16:54

Written by Ganondox on 27.06.2014 at 16:09

Well of course I wasn't referring to bands like Witchfinder General, just the ones associated with speed metal, the ones which took punk influence and played faster, paving the way for thrash and power metal. Pretty much what is described in that article.

I meant how to technically do it on this site, but thanks for the advice, I'll keep that in mind for the future.


I think speed metal was more influenced by faster songs by bands like Deep Purple, Budgie, Queen, Judas Priest and Motörhead than by punk. About writing articles: click on publications - articles - add article.


Motorhead was more influenced by punk then they were by metal, or at least they claim to be. Speed metal bands also generally take more from punk then just speed, like some drum beats and a less melodic riffing style. It's definitely mainly influenced by traditional heavy metal, but there is still a clear punk influence on many of the bands.
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08.08.2014 - 10:03
Aristarchos

Written by Ganondox on 08.08.2014 at 07:52

Motorhead was more influenced by punk then they were by metal, or at least they claim to be. Speed metal bands also generally take more from punk then just speed, like some drum beats and a less melodic riffing style. It's definitely mainly influenced by traditional heavy metal, but there is still a clear punk influence on many of the bands.

In the case of Motörhead, yes, but I can't see that any of the other bands I mentioned was influenced by punk since they pre-dated the big punk years.

Written by deadone on 08.08.2014 at 08:09

I agree on punk influence but that was already there for a number of NWOBHM bands too - look at Iron Maiden or Venom.

Some of the earliest Metal stuff wasn't necessarily "melodic" either. Black Sabbath in particular was very rhythm orientated even on later stuff like the monstrous Symptom of the Universe, let alone songs like Children of the Grave or fast bit from song Black Sabbath.

IMO 1970s Punk's main contribution to metal was:

1. Speed (not that all punk was fast),
2. DIY attitude and disdain for mainstream (early Metal bands generally fitted into general rock scene of day).
3. Rawness/abrasiveness of sound.

Hardcore punk added more elements since 1980s and vice versa.

Iron Maiden has several times stated they weren't influenced by punk at all. I think that metal had energy before punk even existed, take "Summertime Blues" by Blue Cheer for example. I think many of the similarities between the genres (like energy) depends on that the genres have common roots. Of course many metal bands (for example other NWOBHM-bands than Maiden and thrash bands) were influenced by punk, but I can't hear the punk influences in speed metal bands that lean towards power metal.
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08.08.2014 - 17:08
Troy Killjoy
perfunctionist
Keep this on topic guys. If you want to discuss the history and origins of metal and its influences and relationship with punk, do so in the appropriate thread. Read the thread title again if you need a reminder of what the discussion at hand should be about.
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11.08.2014 - 09:27
Ganondox

Written by Aristarchos on 08.08.2014 at 10:03

Written by Ganondox on 08.08.2014 at 07:52

Motorhead was more influenced by punk then they were by metal, or at least they claim to be. Speed metal bands also generally take more from punk then just speed, like some drum beats and a less melodic riffing style. It's definitely mainly influenced by traditional heavy metal, but there is still a clear punk influence on many of the bands.

In the case of Motörhead, yes, but I can't see that any of the other bands I mentioned was influenced by punk since they pre-dated the big punk years.

Written by deadone on 08.08.2014 at 08:09

I agree on punk influence but that was already there for a number of NWOBHM bands too - look at Iron Maiden or Venom.

Some of the earliest Metal stuff wasn't necessarily "melodic" either. Black Sabbath in particular was very rhythm orientated even on later stuff like the monstrous Symptom of the Universe, let alone songs like Children of the Grave or fast bit from song Black Sabbath.

IMO 1970s Punk's main contribution to metal was:

1. Speed (not that all punk was fast),
2. DIY attitude and disdain for mainstream (early Metal bands generally fitted into general rock scene of day).
3. Rawness/abrasiveness of sound.

Hardcore punk added more elements since 1980s and vice versa.

Iron Maiden has several times stated they weren't influenced by punk at all. I think that metal had energy before punk even existed, take "Summertime Blues" by Blue Cheer for example. I think many of the similarities between the genres (like energy) depends on that the genres have common roots. Of course many metal bands (for example other NWOBHM-bands than Maiden and thrash bands) were influenced by punk, but I can't hear the punk influences in speed metal bands that lean towards power metal.


Ok, just to clear this up now as I don't know where the proper discussion forum is and I don't think there is much left to discuss here, and this needs to go back on topic. I wasn't referring to any other band except Motorhead there, though Motorhead is considered to be the first actual speed metal band, not just a metal band with a few faster songs. As for Iron Maiden, pretty sure Steve Harris is just in denial as their first two albums sound like they are influenced by punk, and Paul Di'Anno claims to have brought said punk influence in.

PS. With metal riffs being more melodic than punk and speed metal riffs, that was just a generalization, and more properly I should have said melodically complex then melodic. Black Sabbath is pretty well known for their melodically complex and dissonant yet catchy riffs, even if many of them are more rhythmic.
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11.08.2014 - 12:02
Marcel Hubregtse
Grumpy Old Fuck
Written by Ganondox on 11.08.2014 at 09:27

though Motorhead is considered to be the first actual speed metal band, not just a metal band with a few faster songs.

by which 'authority' on metal? Because by anyone with ears on their head they are considered just a metal band with a few faster songs and certainly not the first actual speed metal band, since not a single one of their albums has more than one or two faster songs and those aren't even up to the speed of a song such as Fast As A Shark by Accept.

Quote:

As for Iron Maiden, pretty sure Steve Harris is just in denial as their first two albums sound like they are influenced by punk, and Paul Di'Anno claims to have brought said punk influence in.


first two albums are indeed slightly influenced by punk. Just listen to DiAnno's vocals and also his onstage attitude. Not only that Iron Maiden also took a lot of influence from the punk scene when it comes to the do it yourself ethic at the start of their career.
Harris is just being a revisionist by now claiming there is no punk influence in their first two albums.
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11.08.2014 - 15:31
Aristarchos

OK, back to topic, IMO, there are no doubts alternative metal is the only proper genre description for SOAD.
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16.09.2015 - 15:27
!J.O.O.E.!
Account deleted
Holy flying shit 219 days ago there were 38 separate fake accounts that visited this page (all have 0 post). This poll was overwhelmingly in favour of Alternative Metal as the most polled, and now it isn't.

That may be the saddest thing I've ever seen.

http://metalstorm.net/forum/whovisit.php?topic_id=50881
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16.09.2015 - 17:59
Guib
Thrash Talker
Written by Guest on 16.09.2015 at 15:27

Holy flying shit 219 days ago there were 38 separate fake accounts that visited this page (all have 0 post). This poll was overwhelmingly in favour of Alternative Metal as the most polled, and now it isn't.

That may be the saddest thing I've ever seen.

http://metalstorm.net/forum/whovisit.php?topic_id=50881


That is fucked up considering SOAD has nothing to do with Nu Metal XD At least I evened it up.
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16.09.2015 - 18:23
Zap
Guest
And I tipped it in favor of alternative again

I wonder what kind of a person spends his time creating 38 accounts just for a random poll like this though.
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16.09.2015 - 20:42
Cynic Metalhead
Paisa Vich Nasha
Perfect Alternative Metal band.

The reason SoaD tagged Nu-Metal is of outfit they pulled off in 00's. The sound System engineered is perfect alternative metal.
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23.04.2022 - 16:40
80sMetalhead

I hate the term "Alternative" it's like there is actually an alternative to rock and roll? look what you did kiddies, you ruined grampas' music instead of honoring it, and now its gone!!! IMO system of a down is one of the few "alternative" generation *not quite my gen X* that actually rocks!! it has rythm, melody, and you can understand the emotion and feeling. Just keep in mind there is absolutely no radio station that ever said "Rocking your world with songs from the 80's, 90's, and 00's." At least "progressive" rock and roll didn't trample everything before it, never heard of a single radio station that would explicitly play only Yes!, Alan Parsons, Pink Floyd, Rush, Jethro Tull, however Alternative R&R consistently refused to honor their predecessors, thus failure of Rock and Roll, during your watch.
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11.05.2022 - 13:55
gavdann

Nu-metal for me. Always have been.

What even is alternative-metal? To me it's just a rebranding of nu-metal.
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11.05.2022 - 14:11
AndyMetalFreak
A Nice Guy
I would best describe them as Nu-metal too, I've never quite understood the term alternative metal either, I always thought of it as another term to describe nu metal, or a genre to give if you can't describe it as anything else. I've never really got into SOAD anyway.
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11.05.2022 - 17:29
gavdann

Written by AndyMetalFreak on 11.05.2022 at 14:11

I would best describe them as Nu-metal too, I've never quite understood the term alternative metal either, I always thought of it as another term to describe nu metal, or a genre to give if you can't describe it as anything else. I've never really got into SOAD anyway.

I ended up checking on wikipedia and it seems like a sub-classification of nu-metal.

nu-metal = metal with elements from others genres such as hip-hop, alternative rock, funk, grunge, etc.
alt-metal = metal with elements of alternative rock.

So basically... it is a rebranding because nu-metal ended up being hated so much by the metal community due to the shite like Limp Bizkit who became popular in the mainstream.
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11.05.2022 - 20:57
AndyMetalFreak
A Nice Guy
Quote:
Written by gavdann on 11.05.2022 at 17:29


I ended up checking on wikipedia and it seems like a sub-classification of nu-metal.

nu-metal = metal with elements from others genres such as hip-hop, alternative rock, funk, grunge, etc.
alt-metal = metal with elements of alternative rock.

So basically... it is a rebranding because nu-metal ended up being hated so much by the metal community due to the shite like Limp Bizkit who became popular in the mainstream.

I suppose your right, Nu metal seemed to be big for a relatively short time, and most of the metal community around that time despised nu metal, so it died off quite quickly, and now the term alternative metal tends to be used more now instead.

I think the worst mistake was when bands such as Limp Bizkit, Korn and Linkin Park tried to blend hip hop with metal elements, during a time when hip hop was becoming massive, so those bands attracted alot of non metal listeners, who thought that was true metal.
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11.06.2022 - 21:50
JoelTheMan

System Of A Down was always an Alternative Metal band, the only reason everyone calls them "Nu Metal" is because they had one Nu Metal album that happened to be their most popular album (Toxicity)
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25.06.2022 - 07:35
Nucky

Always saw them as alternative metal.. Never liked them though.. I am more into classic metal like Maiden,Slayer and similar...
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