some countrys that recoginte kosovo, don't give a fuck about kosov or serbia, specialy some far away countrys liek afghanista and cotarica

The problem with Kosovo is much deeper than anything I read here. In Prizren, in 1876, an organization called Prizren League was formed with the goal of creating a Great Albania, and the Albanian nation is fighting to achieve that goal ever since. European powers created the state of Albania in 1912 after Serbian army conquered Skadar (Shkodra in Albanian) and got onto the shore of Adriatic Sea, because it was in the interest of the British Empire and Austro-Hungarian Empire to prevent Serbia from exiting to the sea. With a predominantly Albanian population (this is a result of a resettlement of Serbs in 1690 when the majority of Serbs fled from Turkish oppression into Austria), Kosovo And Metohija always wanted to separate itself from Yugoslavia, or Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes (1918-1929, I think, after that the state was renamed Yugoslavia) and in WWII Kosovo was annexed by Albania under Italian rule, when further genocide over Serbs and other ethnic groups was enforced. After the war, Kosovo gained authonomy, but nevertheless they continued with separatism, they even once blew up the railway on Kosovo so that president Tito couldn't get there. Serbs wanted to get out of there and they were selling their homes to Albanians, at first for a lot of money, while in 1999 they were rather burning down their homes than to let the Albanians have them. Albanian mafia streched itself across Kosovo and much of Europe and started to raise money for the lobby groups. In 1974 they gained a huge authonomy, almost to a degree of a republic within Yugoslavia, but in 1981, a year after Tito's death they took over the institutions, stopped the use of Serbian language in official documents and tried to declare independence, but were prevented by the legal authorities. After the arrival of Milosevic to power, after more riots, authonomy was reduced almost completely, but the so-called oppression was nothing more than a legitimate act of interventionism against separatists. In 1998 the KLA started its terrorist attacks, funded by USA and other countries. Military responded legitimately, but the paramilitary forces started commiting war crimes which was used in the western medias to portrait Serbs as butchers. After a faked massacre at Racak (confirmed by independent Finnish investigators) NATO started bombing Serbia (and Montenegro) and caused massive destruction, exodus of Kosovo citizens (Albanian and Serb as well) and after the Kumanovo treaty international forces, KFOR and UNMIK took Kosovo under their supervision. Even though there was a UN resolution 1244, UNMIK failed to respect it and did everything to separate Kosovo from Serbia, which eventually happened. There is a lot more to say on this topic, but I can't remember everything right now, read this and think about this.

Written by Bad English on 20.02.2008 at 20:57

Written by EddieGunner on 20.02.2008 at 19:35

some countrys that recoginte kosovo, don't give a fuck about kosov or serbia, specialy some far away countrys liek afghanista and cotarica

and maybe only 2 % of Americans can show in map where are Kosovo, but USA are aganist Serbia because its Russian lil brother country, Milosevič, and so on , and those 'rights for freedom' sometimes USA are to possessed whit it

It's not about freedom and little brothers, it's about interests. Most Albanians are Muslims, America wants to show that they like Muslims. Strategic position, some resources, etc.

Written by Bad English on 20.02.2008 at 21:03

Written by Øyvind on 20.02.2008 at 21:00

Written by Bad English on 20.02.2008 at 20:57

Written by EddieGunner on 20.02.2008 at 19:35

some countrys that recoginte kosovo, don't give a fuck about kosov or serbia, specialy some far away countrys liek afghanista and cotarica

and maybe only 2 % of Americans can show in map where are Kosovo, but USA are aganist Serbia because its Russian lil brother country, Milosevič, and so on , and those 'rights for freedom' sometimes USA are to possessed whit it

It's not about freedom and little brothers, it's about interests. Most Albanians are Muslims, America wants to show that they like Muslims. Strategic position, some resources, etc.

But whan Albanian liberation army will kidnap some plain whit americans, what thay will say than ....

Nobody knows... They aided Afghanistan rebels during the war with USSR, and look what happened then...

Of course you don't remember, all I know about Former Yugoslavia, SFRJ, is from historical researches, not from memory.

I don't remember milk, there was virtually none in, say, 1993 (500 000 000 000 dinars note, and so on), and my parents remember Tito, and the Presidency... Nothing else, they were born in the 50's.

Written by Øyvind on 20.02.2008 at 21:08


Nobody knows... They aided Afghanistan rebels during the war with USSR, and look what happened then...

Exactly... I said that at least 2 times here....

Written by Torelli on 20.02.2008 at 13:01


I think I have missjudged you. I took you for a person that only see albinians as carbage, but now I understand that you're only speaking of territory and goverment here, not about the people living in it. You are one of the few people here that are strongly pro-serbian, but keep the debate civilized, so I'm sorry for thinking of you as a simple racist, I appoligize for that.

At least something positive to come out from this topic.... Apology accepted.
But still there are some thing I dont understand, you say Im pro-Serbian... Well, I how can that be wrong? Im a Serb, amn't I? What should I be, pro-German, or what?? I dont see anyone accuses Swedes for being pro-Swedish... I mean, what does it mean anyway, If im pro_Serbain than I like my country and I am not ashamed to call myself a Serb, and thats wrong??!? Maybe Im just stupid... As we all are it seems...

It is pretty wild alot of shit happens in the Balkans. I am actually a registered Native American. We got our revenge by opening Casino's everywhere, and taking White Man's money. But no, I see what your saying- but I still think Kosovo should stay Serbian.

I don't think that will happen 100%. I was reading news today. Just give the Northern part where the Serbs are living- then slice & dice it, and be done with it.

...Paletinians jumped right on it though- maybe they need thier land too. Then the Kurds in Northern Iraq...it's not a good thing...

Has anyone noticed, that the only country were Bush was welcomed as a hero with much joy and salutes was Albania? I remember no other country were no protests and riots "were hosted on his honor". And doesn't it seem weird that the Albanians were celebrating with American flags in hands?

I wonder what do these people have, that makes the US policy in Balkans, so favored towards Albania?

A huge problem is in this debate is that people seem to judge who should have the right on who that got the most shit. (War, opression etc.) Since neither groups are innocent that arguments falls away.

Another thing is the intense focus on history. Here's one thing: people, where people are, and not least: countries *change*. Norway used to own whole Greenland, a good deal of other islands and more before Denmark took it from us. Sweden also took some parts of eastern Norway. Norway was liberated about 100 years ago. If we where to claim everything we once had we would be crazy warmongers.

Instead we should try to see what could improve the situation *today*. One solution could to make the place where there are most Albanians independent and let the areas with Serbian majority stay Serbian. Of course this is just a proposal, the people who really should be figuring this out is the Albanians and Serbs themselves.

Written by APOHAKC on 20.02.2008 at 12:09
No one blame islam, but I can bet that you're the muslim since you defend such a illegal state so much, but don't worry, if Kosovo stay independent, Serbia will find nice replacement with some other republic.

What would be the point? Where is the logic in this?
Are Serbia just having a certain amout of republics that does not have Serbs, just for kicks?

Written by APOHAKC on 20.02.2008 at 13:39
..but I wonder how would you think if half of your family were killed and your house burned in your own country.

Would be horrified, would be hateful. Of course!
But would that be right of me? Would it be smart to focus on such emotions rather than focus on what could solve problems?
Not accusing you of being reckless or anything, the situation must be hard for the people involved in it, no doubt.

btw. I'm considering to make this my last post in a good while. *laughs*
(Postcount)

Gina73ss: Europe is largely based around nationalism, tha idea that national people should have their own goverments. Why should Kosovo be an exception? Now, possibly Kosovo doesen't need all of the northern parts considering that there a quite a few Serbs there, but otherwise what's so wrong with it?
Should Norway have stayed as a part of Sweden?

btw. Kurdistan stretches from norther Iraq, southern Turkey and parts of Iran as well. (and probably more.) Here they are systematicly being opressed by the other goverments.

Quote:

Written by [user id=1800] on 21.02.2008 at 09:34

Written by APOHAKC on 20.02.2008 at 12:09
No one blame islam, but I can bet that you're the muslim since you defend such a illegal state so much, but don't worry, if Kosovo stay independent, Serbia will find nice replacement with some other republic.

What would be the point? Where is the logic in this?
Are Serbia just having a certain amout of republics that does not have Serbs, just for kicks?

Nope, if you live here you'd understand, it's nothing like that.

Written by APOHAKC on 20.02.2008 at 13:39
..but I wonder how would you think if half of your family were killed and your house burned in your own country.

Would be horrified, would be hateful. Of course!
But would that be right of me? Would it be smart to focus on such emotions rather than focus on what could solve problems?
Not accusing you of being reckless or anything, the situation must be hard for the people involved in it, no doubt.

Quote:
As we ponder how to confront the newly-created but phony terrorist Islamic Republic of Kosovo's illegal independence, we must first understand exactly why this is such a ridiculous action.

http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/feedback/19-02-2008/104130-kosovo_nationhood-0

That Pravda-article hardly seemed balanced. Although it had a few good points it seems to take basis in strong anti-seperatism. Considering that Putin wants to rebuild former Soviet(powerwise, not ideaology) Russian media being strongly anti-seperatist and pro to other countries owning republics with not their own people in it comes as no suprise.

"encourage some 200 separatist movements the worldover"
Movements such as the Kurd one should definetely be supported.

Now when it comes to US and Russia's opions on these matter both countries probably don't give a shit about either Kosovo or Serbia and are having their opinions solelely for strategic reasons. (Russia doesen't want NATO near them, also they want to support any nation holding other republics so it will seem more legal for them to do it themselves.)

"5.can the nation defend itself?"
Again to take my own country as an example. Norway is simply to small to ever have a strong army to defent itself on it's own. So according to the article Norway shouldn't be a country.

Actually, according to that article only large giant countries should be countries at all, and the other should be part of those.

The point is, that completely normal action in situation like this is sending of military down there, I wonder how would USA act if some of their republics declare independence, but no, there are different rules for Serbia and all other countries in the world, last time when we send army to defend our people and our land, on our own territory it ended up by NATO bombing for 70+ days, and not only Kosovo, yeah, no body knew that defend of our lands is a crime. Regarding Russia and USA, of cause they don't give a shit for Serbia but just look for interests, there's no such things as friendly relationships in politics, it is everything about interest.

Written by Stalker on 20.02.2008 at 21:52

Written by Torelli on 20.02.2008 at 13:01


I think I have missjudged you. I took you for a person that only see albinians as carbage, but now I understand that you're only speaking of territory and goverment here, not about the people living in it. You are one of the few people here that are strongly pro-serbian, but keep the debate civilized, so I'm sorry for thinking of you as a simple racist, I appoligize for that.

At least something positive to come out from this topic.... Apology accepted.
But still there are some thing I dont understand, you say Im pro-Serbian... Well, I how can that be wrong? Im a Serb, amn't I? What should I be, pro-German, or what?? I dont see anyone accuses Swedes for being pro-Swedish... I mean, what does it mean anyway, If im pro_Serbain than I like my country and I am not ashamed to call myself a Serb, and thats wrong??!? Maybe Im just stupid... As we all are it seems...

I think you missunderstood me. There is nothing wrong with being proud of your country, or being pro-serbian(or pro-albanian). All I'm saying is that you make your points without calling someone a "fucking idiot" that has the opposite veiw as yourself. It's something everyone should try to do, where ever the are pro-serb/pro-albanian or simply neutral. In other words, it was a compliment.

But since you mentioned nationalism, I think I most explain something to you. We swedes don't have any strong sense of nationalism like you do, in fact it's nearly frowned upon(expect during sport events). We don't have any political parti here that could be consider nationalistic and most swedes are very liberal when it comes to immigration. We have a rather large region here, that has only been swedish for about 300 years(orginaly belonged to danmark), But the danes don't bother over it and the some of the swedish wouldn't mind if it went back to danish territory. My point is, that many swedes don't understand the obession over territory, as we lack a sense of strong nationalism. That is why so many have a hard time to understand why you two groups don't get along when while we other have been able to set our diffrenses a long time ago.

However, I do understand the seriousness in this conflict, as both sides has been steped upon, which makes a Kosovo state impossible, do to both strong sense of nationalism, a nationalism that has in many ways gone to far.


I know that this can be really hard to answer, but I really want some clarity over this: Before the Kosovo independece, Serbia offered a rather strong autonomy for Kosovo, I'm I right? What did the serbian goverment propose that Kosovo could be handling on their own? Before the talks breaked down in 2007, could Kosovo accept something else than independence? In that case, what?

Written by [user id=1800] on 21.02.2008 at 10:33

That Pravda-article hardly seemed balanced. Although it had a few good points it seems to take basis in strong anti-seperatism. Considering that Putin wants to rebuild former Soviet(powerwise, not ideaology) Russian media being strongly anti-seperatist and pro to other countries owning republics with not their own people in it comes as no suprise.

"encourage some 200 separatist movements the worldover"
Movements such as the Kurd one should definetely be supported.

Now when it comes to US and Russia's opions on these matter both countries probably don't give a shit about either Kosovo or Serbia and are having their opinions solelely for strategic reasons. (Russia doesen't want NATO near them, also they want to support any nation holding other republics so it will seem more legal for them to do it themselves.)

"5.can the nation defend itself?"
Again to take my own country as an example. Norway is simply to small to ever have a strong army to defent itself on it's own. So according to the article Norway shouldn't be a country.

Actually, according to that article only large giant countries should be countries at all, and the other should be part of those.

Regarding the 'territory question' youve mentioned earlier, it probably seems too unimportant to you, I mean, what is Kosovo, you can barely see it on a map. But what is small for you (Norway), isnt so small to us. Simple explanation - Norway: 385000 km2 of territory, population - less than 5 milions
Serbia: 88361 km2 and more than 9 milions population (with Kosovo)

Do you see my point here?
And why Serbia cant, and mustnt recognize independent Kosovo? Scenario: If Serbia recognize Kosovo, we will show weakness, and put it clear to the whole world that they can do to us whatever they want, and peace by peace our small country will became even smaller.
Not allways Albanians had majority on Kosovo. They achieved it through years. They can do that in other parts of Serbia too, and if Kosovo is recognized, who will stop them from claiming more land that isnt thiers, and killing and banishing non-Albanian people from there?? That is the question everyone should think about.

Up to now the only sane points put forward have been by TLZ and to a lesser extent Torelli.

Written by [user id=1800] on 21.02.2008 at 09:34

A huge problem is in this debate is that people seem to judge who should have the right on who that got the most shit. (War, opression etc.) Since neither groups are innocent that arguments falls away.

Another thing is the intense focus on history. Here's one thing: people, where people are, and not least: countries *change*. Norway used to own whole Greenland, a good deal of other islands and more before Denmark took it from us. Sweden also took some parts of eastern Norway. Norway was liberated about 100 years ago. If we where to claim everything we once had we would be crazy warmongers.

Instead we should try to see what could improve the situation *today*. One solution could to make the place where there are most Albanians independent and let the areas with Serbian majority stay Serbian. Of course this is just a proposal, the people who really should be figuring this out is the Albanians and Serbs themselves.

Written by APOHAKC on 20.02.2008 at 12:09
No one blame islam, but I can bet that you're the muslim since you defend such a illegal state so much, but don't worry, if Kosovo stay independent, Serbia will find nice replacement with some other republic.

What would be the point? Where is the logic in this?
Are Serbia just having a certain amout of republics that does not have Serbs, just for kicks?

Written by APOHAKC on 20.02.2008 at 13:39
..but I wonder how would you think if half of your family were killed and your house burned in your own country.

Would be horrified, would be hateful. Of course!
But would that be right of me? Would it be smart to focus on such emotions rather than focus on what could solve problems?
Not accusing you of being reckless or anything, the situation must be hard for the people involved in it, no doubt.

btw. I'm considering to make this my last post in a good while. *laughs*
(Postcount)

Gina73ss: Europe is largely based around nationalism, tha idea that national people should have their own goverments. Why should Kosovo be an exception? Now, possibly Kosovo doesen't need all of the northern parts considering that there a quite a few Serbs there, but otherwise what's so wrong with it?
Should Norway have stayed as a part of Sweden?

btw. Kurdistan stretches from norther Iraq, southern Turkey and parts of Iran as well. (and probably more.) Here they are systematicly being opressed by the other goverments.

My good friend, what about the Sami people and the assimilation politics your country and your nation enforced towards them? Where's the Sami state? And this about republics, Republika Srpska, an entity in Bosnia, is predominantly Serbian, that's what he was talking about.

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 21.02.2008 at 13:55

Up to now the only sane points put forward have been by TLZ and to a lesser extent Torelli.

Why, what did I say wrong? Did I insult someone? If thats so, quote me and Ill apologize.

Written by Øyvind on 21.02.2008 at 14:50
My good friend, what about the Sami people and the assimilation politics your country and your nation enforced towards them? Where's the Sami state? And this about republics, Republika Srpska, an entity in Bosnia, is predominantly Serbian, that's what he was talking about.

Most people in Norway, the state are frankly extremely ashamed of how we treated Sami in the past. Today the Sami are treated very well, and our national TV channel are even sending some television with Sami-language. (Despite them being a minority.) There's no way to defend the forced assimilation attempts the Norwegian state did a long time ago and nobody is trying to defend it either.

Now the reason for why there is no Sami state is probably because they don't want one. (They're not organized in that manner, they primarily want to roam the north and keep their deers, and just live their life and their culture.) This is probably partly because a lot of Sami's kinda feel Norwegian as well as Sami. A bit complex situation, but I've never gotten the impression that they wanted a state of their own. The Sami in Norway has something you could call a Sami-congress. It has no direct power, but Norwegian politicians listen to them. (These days theres actually a movie going in theatres about a historical Sami rebellion.)

As with nation/republic I mix them sometimes, sorry.

Stalker: You probably didn't insult anyone, he just disagrees with your views.

Written by Stalker on 21.02.2008 at 13:49

Regarding the 'territory question' youve mentioned earlier, it probably seems too unimportant to you, I mean, what is Kosovo, you can barely see it on a map. But what is small for you (Norway), isnt so small to us. Simple explanation - Norway: 385000 km2 of territory, population - less than 5 milions
Serbia: 88361 km2 and more than 9 milions population (with Kosovo)

I do see the importance and I don't consider Norway to be espescially large. (Maps are "tweaked" to make Europe look larger than it really is, including Norway.) And when it comes to numbers we are very very few indeed.

So I see that it is important, but it isn't only important to Serbs(or Albanians for that matter) but to both!

Written by Stalker on 21.02.2008 at 13:49
Do you see my point here?
And why Serbia cant, and mustnt recognize independent Kosovo? Scenario: If Serbia recognize Kosovo, we will show weakness, and put it clear to the whole world that they can do to us whatever they want, and peace by peace our small country will became even smaller.

I think you're fearing more than what is needed. 200 years ago it might be right, then *only* the large powerfull nations got their right on their side but the situation is different today.

I do see the point though and I do completely understand why stuff like this frightend and angers Serbs. It's very understandable to have a fear of history repeating. This is probably some of the reasons Armenians are so eager to get Turkey to regonize the Armenian Genocide.

Written by Stalker on 21.02.2008 at 13:49
Not allways Albanians had majority on Kosovo. They achieved it through years. They can do that in other parts of Serbia too, and if Kosovo is recognized, who will stop them from claiming more land that isnt thiers, and killing and banishing non-Albanian people from there?? That is the question everyone should think about.

Without the a large Muslim-state behind their back? I doubt it. The days of Ottoman Empire are long gone. (I think Al-Quada is too disorganized Muslim-organisation to do antyhing there anyway. And besides: We all know borders isn't something that stops Al-Queda.)

I even thing letting Kosovo become independent could give Serbs the oppurunity to stop that actually. If you let Kosovo(or at least the parts of Kosovo with Albanian-majority) become independent. Then you could have very strict rules for imigration and make the Albanians only stay in Kosovo. This way the Albanians wouldn't have the oppurunity to do what you fear. (You could also to this to other groups.) Not something I'm pro or against, just an idea and mindopener regarding the possiblities the independent Kosovo presents.

The Albanians obviously don't want to be a part of Serbia and thus won't be contributing. This isn't very strengthening for Serbia and if you have more people(percentage!) being positive to their goverment it's definetely going to be stronger.

Written by APOHAKC on 21.02.2008 at 10:47
The point is, that completely normal action in situation like this is sending of military down there...

It is certainly normal. (Normal is just what's most common anyway.)
I guess you could say that peace in general really isn't very normal. =/

Anyway, although it is normal is it neccerely the best for everyone(including Serbs!) in the region?

------------------------------------------------------------------

The only solution I see here is if Serbs and Albanians come to some sort of agreement. Whether that be independent Kosovo, Kosovo as a part of Serbia, Kosovo as a part of Serbia but with some self-control or something else is up to them.

Sadly this probably won't happen. (As both sides don't want to come to a understanding anyway, or at least so it seems.)

@taka
it's a impressive list, but more then half of those erias, or how to call them , don't want to become independent by 90% of population that lives there and im sure none of those ever asked for independenci .....

and i see theres no more Kosovo on list

Written by APOHAKC on 21.02.2008 at 10:47

The point is, that completely normal action in situation like this is sending of military down there, I wonder how would USA act if some of their republics declare independence, but no, there are different rules for Serbia and all other countries in the world, last time when we send army to defend our people and our land, on our own territory it ended up by NATO bombing for 70+ days, and not only Kosovo, yeah, no body knew that defend of our lands is a crime. Regarding Russia and USA, of cause they don't give a shit for Serbia but just look for interests, there's no such things as friendly relationships in politics, it is everything about interest.

The Balkan conflict was not a case of Serbia being picked on for no reason, as you seem to be suggesting. I distinctly remember that numerous horrific war crimes were being committed by Serbs on Serbian soil against minority Croats and other ethnic groups (the so-called "ethnic cleansing" comes to mind). And please don't tell me the media was making it up, because I had a friend at university who served in Serbia as a UN peacekeeper and saw things that I would rather not even repeat here. Like it or not, there was a reason that Serbia was attacked by outside forces - and it had nothing to do with Serbs merely defending their homeland. As you are clearly too young to remember the conflict, I would suggest that your opinions on the matter have been influenced by those who have an interest in propagating a misleading version of history. Nobody wants to admit that bad things were done in the name of their people and their country.

When I learned of what my country had done to our First Nations people even as recently as the 1960s, I was so upset that I cried. It is hard to face the truth of one's own history. Many people would rather live in denial because acknowledging the truth can be painful.

Written by [user id=22888] on 21.02.2008 at 20:03

conflict was not a case of Serbia being picked on for no reason, as you seem to be suggesting. I distinctly remember that numerous horrific war crimes were being committed by Serbs on Serbian soil against minority Croats and other ethnic groups (the so-called "ethnic cleansing" comes to mind). And please don't tell me the media was making it up, because I had a friend at university who served in Serbia as a UN peacekeeper and saw things that I would rather not even repeat here. Like it or not, there was a reason that Serbia was attacked by outside forces - and it had nothing to do with Serbs merely defending their homeland. As you are clearly too young to remember the conflict, I would suggest that your opinions on the matter have been influenced by those who have an interest in propagating a misleading version of history. Nobody wants to admit that bad things were done in the name of their people and their country.

When I learned of what my country had done to our First Nations people even as recently as the 1960s, I was so upset that I cried. It is hard to face the truth of one's own history. Many people would rather live in denial because acknowledging the truth can be painful.

finaly someone who understand situation here ;9



@K7
its UTAH

At first I wasn't going to get involved in this discussion as I knew what it was going to turn into. I now see I was right. On this whole thread the posts that are reasonable can be counted on the fingers of one hand. Please no one quote anything i said cause i don't plan on coming back. It would be best if this whole stupid discussion just ends here.

Let me begin by saying that no, it's not like i think that the whole idea of Kosovo being a country is a good thing. I don't. This is Serbian territory and it should stay there. The fact is that Albanians have taken it over completely stands, there is just... so much of them now but the idea of them having their own country is highly illogical. It just is. There are tons and tons and tons of reasons why it is. Also - they are getting excited to easily, I very much doubt that they will function well as a country, it seems almost impossible. Now that it is like it is... and if it stays that way then I really want all the best to everybody. I never want anyone to hurt. I just don't think it can work. Albania on it's own isn't what you'd call a stable country, there's little hope it will ever be, or that this will be. I just want the best for the people there. It's not like they have it easy. But also... not like they're perfect but especially after all of this... i can't even blame them for wanting the hell out of there.

But... why do the Serbs always involve other people in their shit. CAN IT BE that there are so many unreasonable people in that country? I think it can.
Let me tell you... i try so hard.. SO HARD. Not to judge people solely on the fact that they are Serbian. My father does enough of that and with the things happening the way they did. I can fully understand him.
My point is. There are now riots in Belgrade. People are literally running around burning the city. Burning it. Their own city. Ruining the shops. Burning the embassies. Damage was done to the Croatian embassy in Belgrade too among other embassies... of course. I somehow knew it. We haven't even recognized Kosovo yet and the Serbian politicians are making all kinds of like... unbelievable threats. Like we have some choice.. please.

I just want to know why when something like this happens. When shit happens in Serbian territory and it always does for some or other reason. WHY must they then involve everybody in this. WHY are the burning their own city, WHY burn down the Croatian embassy. WHY? What in God's name do we have to do with it?
We do not want to get involved in this, we don't need their problems on us. How i try to keep an open mind, you have no idea. But it has come to the point where I have to feel sorry that we live near such an unreasonable nation. How can they do all this. Now they are not only thrashing their own city, there's stealing going on... from shops that they trashed. And no it's not only some hooligans. If they were some hooligans then the police could control all of this. This is a lot of people.

What kind of behavior is this? You are trying to show Europe what Serbia thinks about giving up Kosovo?! Is this it? Well by this I can only deduct that your opinion on giving up Kosovo is that you should go burn down your whole fucking city cause like... whatever.. right? If my own country had a situation like this.. i can.. as a citizen of this country guarantee you that we would march and protest but i can also guarantee you that this kind of destructive and...animal like almost behavior would just NOT HAPPEN. I can't fucking comprehend this, put my brain in a place where I could get this. I can't.

I noticed that whenever a Serbian person discusses any situation from the now or the past.. it will end up in said person trying to convince everybody and everyone that they are always being attacked, accused etc. and that they are in fact innocent. How does this happen? There is some malfunction in the way the people think.. there just is. It's another thing I can't understand. And no, i don't care if anyone wants to say that this isn't true. It is.

How is it that Serbia is the nation that never ever ever learns from the mistakes made?? How? How am I supposed to believe in the younger generation when even some of them are out there causing shit?
We don't have that much people who are Albanian living here. But we do have some. And how the hell can someone explain to me the fact that certain Serbs set fire to vans owned by some random Albanian people living here..in a Croatian city. This is another proof that there is NO REASONING. I mean god dammit. How can you burn down a vehicle owned by someone who lives and works a normal job in my country? Has the arrogance and spite come this far? What do these innocent people have to do with them. Do not mess with our country now that it's peaceful and free of your crap.

I guess the thing that pains me most is that you just cannot win here. People cannot. You can't reason with someone that doesn't listen to reason. And involves other countries in this. How can there be a nation that always causes shit. I swear to God if some shit breaks out caused by them again I'll move the fuck out of this whole damn continent. Not just for a few months for fun like planned but for fucking ever. I have had enough, not having a normal goddamn neighboring country. Seriously, enough with this shit already.

I know Serbia has normal people, i have just today talked to a girl from Serbia. She's so.. ashamed of this. I can understand her although it's not her fault.. and i can understand her pain since Belgrade is her city... but again. I cannot understand why don't they learn from mistakes? When is causing shit going to end? It's like I'm watching an uncivilized tribe on tv. And i even don't care who i offend. I just don't give a shit anymore.

Also i don't just watch only Croatian news.. since CERTAIN Serbs claim that Croatia is biased and shit and trying to make them look bad when we in fact .. the way the situation is now.. to be honest we just want the hell away from them and don't give a shit. So i watch news from all over the world. And it's all the same. Everyone in the whole of Europe sees what they do wrong it's just them that don't. It hurts me in the sense that all the people living there are not responsible for the shit that happens and so many of them don't support this horrible arrogance that happens, but now there's no way out.

What i hope and wish for is that they keep their own stupid, barbaric shit withing their own borders. This is most important... their own borders. Furthermore - I want this to end soon. And I mean soon, i want for all this rioting and Serbs ways of wrongly dealing with things.. i want for all of it to just end. I can't look at it anymore, i can't stand it. I DON'T want to hear about it. It's a nation unlike ANY I've seen before. Any. Always damaging themselves and losing in the end and while damaging themselves they don't forget to try to fuck up their neighbors or go even further.

Thank you for letting me have my rant. I'm officially done with this whole subject.

My friend was born in Knin- his family moved to Serbia....

He, and all his family & friends are hard working. Very hard working and made very good lives in America. They make a better life than most lazy American's on welfare.

For this I respect them very deeply. I think Serbian, Croatian people in general have very high integrity. If only more American's had a good work ethic like them. I will always have a special place for them in my heart.

They were not angry when I spoke to them last night. Just very sad...things just need to stay the same & be peaceful. Why ruin the peace that has been the last few years?

Keep the past in the past- I do agree. I see that better, thank you.

Look forward to the future...and say lots of prayers.

@Gina73ss

most of ppl from balakan r hard workin ppl, even in ex yugoslavia a lot ppl from here worked in western europe ,usa and aussie, and they come back home and bring money..... (oh maby not thos from monte negro, they r known as very lazy ppl here)

Written by [user id=1800] on 21.02.2008 at 16:12


The only solution I see here is if Serbs and Albanians come to some sort of agreement. Whether that be independent Kosovo, Kosovo as a part of Serbia, Kosovo as a part of Serbia but with some self-control or something else is up to them.

I think so too. Any solution resulting that a group feels let aside could leed to another wave of viloence(that we allready have seen the begining of, in Belgrad for example). But to recive a solution both are content with, it seems nearly impossible, but it has been done before. Swedes and finns are able to co-exist in Finland, despit my country's past wars. Admitly, it was a long time ago, but they manage to settle their diffrences. What speaks against it here, is the diffrences in culture, diffrences in religion and, of course, the overly strong sense of nationalism. Perhaps we can see a lighter tension in some decades, but for now, it seems pretty bleak...

well it would be best if Albanians and Serbs make some agreement but that imposible, Serbs don't wannt independent Kosovo, and Albanians don't want to be into Serbia..... and they won't change their minds specialy now, when kosovo is reconite by some countrys they don't even think to come back into serbia anymore

A thing occured to me...Some of you want to accuse the decleration of an independed Kosovo is just a way of propaganda, to spread Islam, and the support by most OIC - countries is a proof for that. I found an intresting thing today, namely Islamic Community of Serbia's opinion of it:

"The Islamic Community of Serbia has stated that the unilateral declaration of independence by Kosovo is an 'act of political violence' and it hence does not welcome the move, which according to it can awake further disintegration amongst peoples. It has called upon Islamic states in the world to think twice before moving to recognize Kosovo's independence." Source: Wikipedia or the source wikipedia states(in serbian).

I wholeheartedly support my government's point of view about the Kosovo matter. To my eyes, this unilateral declaration of independence is stupid at best. In fact, I do not understand why so many of our European fellows are ready to accept Kosovo as a new country inside the borders of Europe. The only reasons that come to my mind are:

1) either they don't know s*it about Balkan history (probably this is the motivation of the uncultured American president);
2) or they want to punish Serbia for remaining non-aligned during the Cold War, which partly triggered the disintegration of Socialist Federal Yugoslavia;
3) or they do, indeed, blame the Holocaust, the extinction of the dinosaurs, AIDS, the Sack of Constantinople, Apartheid and Paris Hilton on Serbians.

First of all, the Montenegro (Crno Gore if you wish, K7) independence has absolutely nothing to do with this pantomime. As far as I know, both Serbians and Montenegrins took part in the process and agreed to part ways together - at least, according to the famous Serbians and Montenegrins (Crnogorski or something, K7? ) who rule Spanish football and basketball like Pedja Mijatovic or Zeljko Obradovic . On the contrary, only Albanians born in Kosovo agreed to the invention of a nation that has never existed. While Croatia or Slovenia were federated into Yugoslavia, Montenegro had been an independent kingdom in the past, and Serbians and Albanians had their respective languages, Kosovo has NEVER been anything but a Serbian region. Even Navarra or Northumberland have historically more rights to independence than Kosovo-Albanians.

Not only has there never been a Kosovar identity (separatists even invented a new Kosovar flag this week, which I find way too similar to the BiH one), but those who recognize independent Kosovo have to realize that this Serbian Christian region was colonized by Ottomans with Muslim Albanians in order to hide the ancestral roots of Serbians -which are located at such points like North Kosovo- and suppress their nation.

Well, what's next? As far as Spain is concerned, the Catalonian Parliament almost passed a declaration of support to Kosovo-Albanian independence and a Basque official publicly expressed her solidarity with the Kosovar people. Just when we Europeans needed to fight for unity and solidarity among European peoples, all our hard work might have been in vain. Now that a new nation (?) is born South of Serbia, nationalist tensions are going to rise exponentially. Scottish nationalists shall ask for more rights on the oil under the North Sea. Hungarians from Vojvodina and Transylvania might start making plans for Greater Hungary. Independent Catalonia will start an irredentist campaign in order to relive the Medieval Aragonese Crown, which includes all of Aragon, Valencia -I still have to ask Largos what he thinks about Catalan imperialism-, the Balearic Islands, Sardinia, Sicily and big parts of South Italy and South France. Terrorist organizations such as ETA and the Chechnyan guerilla, and those responsible for ethnic cleansings such as what the Caucasian population suffered during the Nagorno-Karabakh words will find a justification for their actions. My beloved Europe, welcome to hell. My Serbian brothers, never forget that Spain is at your side.


@Stalker: Nevertheless, you are not always supposed to defend your country at all costs. For example, I will never justify the enslavement and slaughter of millions of people by Spaniards during many centuries. And I'm not only referring to the Americas.