Written by Starvynth on 13.02.2021 at 15:14

Written by Silent Creeper on 13.02.2021 at 14:37

It would probably be good to also mention this somewhere else when the voting is open. I've been voting for almost 15 years now and did not know that. For example I was not planning to vote in category X and did not notice that the band I voted with write-in in category Y was nominated in category X. Vote was deleted and I thought it was just some weird bug.

To be precise, we neither consciously nor actively delete any votes. Rather, many write-in votes will magically disappear once the Awards are closed, but that only applies if they are cast in the wrong category AND if the sum of the (wrongly placed) write-in votes is not enough for a place in the top 10.
And that is simply logical, because how are we supposed to know that band X would also be your favourite participant in the melodeath category if you have casted your vote in the death category? Should we delete your original and correctly placed vote for melodeath instead?

You should at least take a brief look at the related categories and remember the names of the nominees before you blindly cast your vote in a "wrong" category and thus waste it. I think that's the least you can ask for and it's not even particularly complicated.

Thank you for your thorough reply. Nonetheless, my point is actually mainly that it would be nice if this was mentioned somewhere where it could be seen by more users before they vote. It can get overlooked in this kind of topics.

Also I am almost sure that some of the votes that I casted in the wrong categories in current 2020 awards were somehow removed already, but of course there is no way I can prove this. Maybe my memory is playing tricks on me. I already deleted all my votes and will cast them once again, keeping this in mind.

Written by Silent Creeper on 13.02.2021 at 16:31

Nonetheless, my point is actually mainly that it would be nice if this was mentioned somewhere where it could be seen by more users before they vote. It can get overlooked in this kind of topics.

That's a fair point. We'll try to remember this for MSA 2021, so thanks for the heads-up.

I will never understand a (not so) subtle dose of elitism when it comes to these nominations. I am the first person who likes to delve into a bit more obscure and underground corners of a scene and endlessly listen to some relatively underground bands and albums.. but I don't get why some bands and albums are skipped every year in the nominations when it is quite clear they were at least one of the most popular albums of that year for their respective genre. I say popular because the quality and 'best' can be a matter of taste and preference... but even when I wouldn't even vote for that particular album I find it quite ridiculous that is being left out of the nominations. Not just this year, it goes quote a few years back...

Written by Silent Creeper on 13.02.2021 at 14:37

It would probably be good to also mention this somewhere else when the voting is open. I've been voting for almost 15 years now and did not know that.

Word. I've been here ten years and didn't know either.

Written by RhaegarTargaryen on 15.02.2021 at 15:20

I will never understand a (not so) subtle dose of elitism when it comes to these nominations. I am the first person who likes to delve into a bit more obscure and underground corners of a scene and endlessly listen to some relatively underground bands and albums.. but I don't get why some bands and albums are skipped every year in the nominations when it is quite clear they were at least one of the most popular albums of that year for their respective genre. I say popular because the quality and 'best' can be a matter of taste and preference... but even when I wouldn't even vote for that particular album I find it quite ridiculous that is being left out of the nominations. Not just this year, it goes quote a few years back...

Can you name some examples?

Written by RaduP on 15.02.2021 at 15:44

Written by RhaegarTargaryen on 15.02.2021 at 15:20

I will never understand a (not so) subtle dose of elitism when it comes to these nominations. I am the first person who likes to delve into a bit more obscure and underground corners of a scene and endlessly listen to some relatively underground bands and albums.. but I don't get why some bands and albums are skipped every year in the nominations when it is quite clear they were at least one of the most popular albums of that year for their respective genre. I say popular because the quality and 'best' can be a matter of taste and preference... but even when I wouldn't even vote for that particular album I find it quite ridiculous that is being left out of the nominations. Not just this year, it goes quote a few years back...

Can you name some examples?

I'm wondering as well; I guess Nightwish, Testament and My Dying Bride were the biggest names to miss out this year, but it's not like any of them got particularly warm receptions on the website, unlike the Swallow The Sun omission last year. All 3 are (amongst the) worst-rated albums from each band since 2000.

We had this kind of discussion a few times already, on yearly awards. I remember last and two years ago some albums were also left out, on the grounds of 'not being good enough'? There was another let us say 'well-known' band which was omitted last year, and got a shit tone of write in votes, besides Swallow the Sun. Or was that 2018? Can't remember which band it was tho, I remember there were discussions all over the place. It might be Eluveitie a couple of years ago.

musclassia might be right, it might have something to do with album ratings on the site, but I still consider it weird, given that a lot of people just spam negative votes around for the bands they don't like, or to raise the position of the albums they do.
Swallow the Sun, Nightwish, My Dying Bride... I remember I noticed a band missing like ten days ago when I was casting votes, can't remember which one it was.

Written by RhaegarTargaryen on 15.02.2021 at 19:42

We had this kind of discussion a few times already, on yearly awards. I remember last and two years ago some albums were also left out, on the grounds of 'not being good enough'? There was another let us say 'well-known' band which was omitted last year, and got a shit tone of write in votes, besides Swallow the Sun. Or was that 2018? Can't remember which band it was tho, I remember there were discussions all over the place. It might be Eluveitie a couple of years ago.

musclassia might be right, it might have something to do with album ratings on the site, but I still consider it weird, given that a lot of people just spam negative votes around for the bands they don't like, or to raise the position of the albums they do.
Swallow the Sun, Nightwish, My Dying Bride... I remember I noticed a band missing like ten days ago when I was casting votes, can't remember which one it was.

Every album that gets nominated goes through the same process. We vote for albums. Sometimes we have to debate the category in which we vote them. By the deadline, votes are counted and whoever has more votes gets nominated. Nothing more, nothing less. There is no shortcut to getting nominated based on popularity. In fact, I'd say even so popular bands have some privilege because they're the ones most likely to have been listened to by the a bigger number of voters.

Written by RaduP on 15.02.2021 at 20:03

In fact, I'd say even so popular bands have some privilege because they're the ones most likely to have been listened to by the a bigger number of voters.

I was thinking the same; an album by a popular album has to be thought of fairly unfavourably across the board during the decision-making process to miss out, because between two albums that people generally feel similarly about, the bigger name will make it through by virtue of more people knowing them and having an opinion about the album as a result.

I disagreed with Swallow The Sun missing out last year, but I don't think overlooking Nightwish's album is indicative of us being elitists that are out of touch with the website users considering the level of vitriol sent its way by a solid number of this website's users (if it gets more write-in votes for Best Symphonic Metal album than Biggest Letdown, maybe we are elitists). Us being elitists would be to disregard good albums in spite of their popularity, but the fact is that the widely acclaimed Paradise Lost and Draconian albums did make the cut in the Gothic Metal category even as MDB didn't. If we had to take wider popularity into the equation, it would've been a huge oversight from us to not include Ozzy Osbourne - Ordinary Man in the Heavy/Melodic category; the title track alone has nearly 10 million views on Youtube, which is probably more than every song on every other album in the category combined, and it also has a strong like:dislike ratio. However, as I'm writing this, of the 37 names listed as write-ins in that category, none of them are Ozzy, so it seems like general popularity of an artist by itself isn't enough, if not a single person feels like Ordinary Man deserves to be considered the best Heavy Metal album of the year.

Each year, a small-to-moderately sized group of people provide their opinions and 5-10 albums are collectively decided on for each category. It's not perfect, and occasionally an album that should've been nominated slips through the cracks (Swallow The Sun last year, tbh I don't think there's any egregious big-name omission this year); however, the large majority of albums by big names that receive generally positive reactions get nominated. Checking their comments, the last time Rhaegar raised this argument concerning the awards (back for the 2018 awards), they mentioned a "'we go against mainstream at all costs' feel" - I don't understand how nominating bands like Trivium, Deftones, Katatonia, Paradist Lost, Draconian, Dark Tranquillity, Enslaved, Finntroll, Ensiferum, Body Count, Kvelertak... is going against the mainstream at all costs? And in the 2018 MSAs, there were nominations for names as big as Alice In Chains, Immortal, Shining, Ghost, Judas Priest, At The Gates, Deafheaven, Sirenia, Soulfly..., so it's not like it was the case then either (looking back at the results from that year, I can only assume the comment was referring to Dimmu Borgir - Eonian, and if so, I think it's a pretty unreasonable depiction of the rationale behind the omission of that album).

There will inevitably be a small handful of albums each year (and it is a small handful, it's not like it's 20 albums) that people disagree against the exclusion of, leading to substantial numbers of write-in votes, but the fact is that most people just vote for the biggest name in a category regardless of quality without listening to the other options, so I'm not sure that the number of votes something receives proves anything in and of itself. If someone disagrees with a specific album missing out, it's perfectly fair to say it here, but I don't think accusations of elitism and agendas, as if an album missing out is motivated by anything other that a shared opinion that said album isn't very good, are either fair or backed up by evidence. We could just auto-nominate anything released by one of the top 100 bands on the site, but why would we? We're not the Grammys.

New category proposal: Music to Get High To.
Nominee: Lucid Planet's album Lucid Planet II.
Top shelf. Top..........Shelf.

Written by musclassia on 16.02.2021 at 00:41

Written by RaduP on 15.02.2021 at 20:03

but I don't think overlooking Nightwish's album is indicative of us being elitists that are out of touch with the website users considering the level of vitriol sent its way by a solid number of this website's users (if it gets more write-in votes for Best Symphonic Metal album than Biggest Letdown, maybe we are elitists).

Remember when Nightwish won both biggest letdown and biggest suprise in the same year? I wouldn't be shocked if they finish high in the best symphonic through write ins while getting just as many in the letdown at teh same time.
Edit: Nightwish also only lost best power album by 1 vote that year, too.

After first listen, I was wrong. Armored Saint's Punching the Sky is actually a pretty fucking cool record. Switching my vote. So catchy and just has that "cool" vibe I resonate with.

Would just like to take a moment to say how much I appreciate the staff putting this together this year. Has really helped me reconnect with new music after kind of falling away for quite some time. I must have listened to more bands I'd never listened to before in the last month than at probably any time since first logging on here 15 odd years ago!

Question for the staff: have you ever considered giving each awards category its own forum/comments page? Feel like it would be a good way to discuss just the albums from that category.

Written by LordFezzington on 21.02.2021 at 19:16
Question for the staff: have you ever considered giving each awards category its own forum/comments page? Feel like it would be a good way to discuss just the albums from that category.

That is actually a really good idea. Thank for that! Let's hope for next year.

Written by LordFezzington on 21.02.2021 at 19:16

Question for the staff: have you ever considered giving each awards category its own forum/comments page? Feel like it would be a good way to discuss just the albums from that category.

Very good idea

Written by nikarg on 21.02.2021 at 23:53

Written by LordFezzington on 21.02.2021 at 19:16

Question for the staff: have you ever considered giving each awards category its own forum/comments page? Feel like it would be a good way to discuss just the albums from that category.

Very good idea

i absolutely LOVE this idea, and think it would generate good discussion.
I know my yapper will be active in those forums

If you can read this, then you have less than 24 hours to cast or correct your votes.
As in previous years, there are quite a few wrongly placed write-in votes. This is your last chance to place your votes where they may actually have an impact instead of letting them vanish into nothingness.

Aeternam - Al Qassam
correct category: Melodeath / Extreme Power / Gothenburg Metal
wrong category: Symphonic Metal

Aseitas - False Peace
correct category: Extreme Progressive Metal
wrong category: Avantgarde / Experimental Metal

Black Crown Initiate - Violent Portraits Of Doomed Escape
correct category: Extreme Progressive Metal
wrong category: Progressive Metal

Clouds - Durere
correct category: Doom Metal
wrong category: Extreme Doom Metal

Cryptic Shift - Visitations From Enceladus
correct category: Extreme Progressive Metal
wrong category: Death Metal

Dark Buddha Rising - Mathreyata
correct category: Ambient / Drone / Noise Album
wrong category: Extreme Doom Metal

Draconian - Under A Godless Veil
correct category: Gothic Metal
wrong categories: Black Metal and Death Metal

Ensiferum - Thalassic
correct category: Folk / Pagan / Viking Metal
wrong category: Power Metal

Enslaved - Utgard
correct category: Extreme Progressive Metal
wrong category: Folk / Pagan / Viking Metal

Fawn Limbs - Sleeper Vessels
correct category: Djent / Math Metal
wrong category: Grindcore

Fires In The Distance - Echoes From Deep November
correct category: Doom Metal
wrong category: Heavy / Melodic Metal

Katatonia - City Burials
correct category: Alternative Metal
wrong category: Gothic Metal

Loviatar - Lightless
correct category: Post-Metal
wrong category: Doom Metal

Malokarpatan - Krupinské Ohne
correct category: Melodic Black Metal
wrong category: Heavy / Melodic Metal

Mors Principium Est - Seven
correct category: Melodeath / Extreme Power / Gothenburg Metal
(the write-in vote for Melodeath will not count!)

On Thorns I Lay - Threnos
correct category: Gothic Metal
wrong category: Extreme Doom Metal

Protest The Hero - Palimpsest
correct category: Progressive Metal
wrong categories: Extreme Progressive Metal and Hardcore / Metalcore / Deathcore

Pull Down The Sun - Of Valleys And Mountains
correct category: Post-Metal
wrong category: Progressive Metal

The Ocean - Phanerozoic II: Mesozoic / Cenozoic
correct category: Post-Metal
wrong category: Hardcore / Metalcore / Deathcore

Trivium - What The Dead Men Say
correct category: Alternative Metal
wrong category: Heavy / Melodic Metal

Wayfarer - A Romance With Violence
correct category: Melodic Black Metal
wrong category: Extreme Progressive Metal