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Wintersun - Time II review




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Reviewer:
8.5

368 users:
8.35
Band: Wintersun
Album: Time II
Style: Extreme power metal
Release date: August 2024
A review by: ScreamingSteelUS


01. Fields Of Snow
02. The Way Of The Fire
03. One With The Shadows
04. Ominous Clouds
05. Storm
06. Silver Leaves

Well, it’s about damn time.

If you have been living on an isolated Andamanese island all your life, there are a couple of things you might not be aware of. First, we've discovered penicillin. It's great. Second, Wintersun sucks. And I don't mean that in a bizarrely affectionate way, like how people say "Primus sucks" when they actually want to heap accolades on Col. Claypool's bassy banditos. I mean that I no longer wear my Wintersun t-shirt outside the house because I don't want people to think that I am an easily manipulated moron (I am, but that's why I have to take extra precautions). I mean that we are going to look this gift horse in the mouth and we're going to apply a mandibular microscope so powerful that it can actually detect the impossibly minute jots of respect that I still have for Jari Mäenpää.

There is no sense in pretending that Time II doesn't have some of the heaviest baggage that a metal album has ever been saddled with. I first became a Wintersun fan c. 2010 and people were already getting sick of jokes about how Time was taking forever (it was originally slated for a late-2006 release, mind, and as one album). If you've ever hovered near this circle of the metal sphere, you've picked up on the shroud of weariness hanging over Wintersun's stalwart fan base; we've sure nominated them for Drama of the Year enough times in the last two decades. Wintersun is no longer a band but a carnival.

Generally, I try to respect an artist's personal and creative needs. I respect Bolt Thrower's decision not to continue recording on the grounds that they couldn't meet their own standards (and who could top Those Once Loyal anyway?); I don't demand that Devin Townsend bring back Strapping Young Lad, foundational though those recordings are to me; as eager as I am for King Diamond to release his long-awaited return, currently sitting at 9 years since announcement, 17 since its predecessor, I'm not cursing his name for not delivering it yet; I can even understand Rotting Christ's decision not to release any new music since 2007 for some reason. But Green Carnation, Virgin Black, Toxik, Disillusion, Conception, Porcupine Tree, Heavy Load, and Heir Apparent weren't engaged in constant warfare during their lengthy absences. Warlord and Death Angel and Melt-Banana weren't teasing incomprehensible updates, shilling repackages of inadequate amounts of new music, begging for money, launching crowdfund after crowdfund, establishing Patreons of questionable value, antagonizing their record label, constructing entirely new workspaces, getting subsidized by their governments, building jacuzzis, or embracing the joke about jacuzzis and repeating it as if people weren't genuinely kind of pissed off that their money wasn't showing any returns after years and years. Hell, Sleep's comeback after 15 years was announced as a surprise the day before. All the fuss about Time isn't just fuss about time. It's the way Jari has managed his commercial enterprise. Frankly, the struggle to continue caring about this album is likely at a point for many people where it doesn't matter how good Time II actually is because the investment will overshadow the return. I myself have not reached that state of decay, but it would be understandable.

Now, I'd say we're still justified in whinging about the wait, given that this album was first announced 19 years ago and apparently has been under active construction for significant stretches since then. In those 19 years, Alice Cooper has released six albums, Magnum have released ten, Boris have released 29, Agathocles have done more splits than Jean-Claude Van Damme, and Buckethead has released at least one album dedicated to every individual atom in the universe. Sigh even beat Wintersun to releasing an album with over 100 tracks per song, which I noted in my review of Graveward back in 2015. We're not looking at a huge quantity/quality dichotomy here either.

I hope you'll pardon the excess of information you're already aware of - this will be the last occasion on which we'll ever be able to complain about Time’s delay in the present tense, so I have to get it all out here, partly for my own catharsis and partly for posterity's sake. There will come a point in the future when all of this context fades away and Jari's schemes wither in fragments of time. For fans who have only just discovered Wintersun or are yet to discover them, this doesn't matter at all, and my lengthy diatribe will seem foolish. That is why, after spending the length of an entire review saying nothing whatsoever about the essence of Time II as an album, I will finally get to the music.

This is exactly what it says on the packaging: it’s Time part two, an epic of lengthy, progressive compositions that spin massive symphonies around dramatic melodeath concepts. The melodies dance between folk and classical, sometimes swelling into the affirmative majesty of power metal, sometimes puzzling over an Asiatic wrinkle. The crackling, forceful speed-riffs and pummeling drums that make Finnish extreme power metal what it is are well in evidence, as are multiple Jaris raising exultant chorus in harmony. Coy, thoughtful, and bombastic all in turn, the melodies support gigantic hooks and thunder, but they have a certain fragility to them: if this album like its predecessors paints its native landscape with sound, you can hear the flowers as well as the mountains. Helping that along is what I’m going to call a synth erhu, which did appear on Time I but serves as a more prominent component here, particularly on “Fields Of Snow” and “Silver Leaves”.

One of the less infuriating developments leading up to this album was Jari’s decision to retire from guitar to focus on vocals while performing live, and while that decision precedes this release by quite a bit, it makes sense when listening to the guitar arrangements; I suspect that they may have to hire yet one more additional guitarist to pull off some of these parts live. Jari’s guitar skill has long been evident – as a soloist, as a riffwriter, as a shredder, as a composer – but I feel as though I’m learning his facility for the first time again. The guitars have more lead time here than on past albums, and while there’s no great departure from Time I (the instrumental portions of the title track are an apparent forerunner), the precision, tone, and ingenuity are so flawless here that I would dub this the best batch of work from Wintersun’s guitarists. Riff-wise, you’ll never beat stuff like “Beyond The Dark Sun” or “Death And The Healing”, but we are now in the realm of full-fledged orchestration. I shouldn’t fail to credit Teemu Mäntysaari as well; I have no specific information as to who recorded what, and while I’m inclined to assume that much of what we hear is Jari simply because of the nature of this project and this album, I’ll give them equal credit for having created a fantastic piece of work.

What we know for sure belongs to Jari is the songwriting, and the extensive instrumental passages remind me of his professed love for film score – you can feel the movements of many musical ideas throughout and a capacity for feeling that creates a kind of narrative symphony. If Jari were to compose the score for a film, I suspect the results would be successful, although he’d better start now if he wants to be done in time for the 37th Indiana Jones movie. Nothing on this album strikes me quite as mightily and builds with such consistent memorability as “Sons Of Winter And Stars”, which is my favorite Wintersun song, but the emotional richness found on “Land Of Snow And Sorrow” and “Time” flourishes here, particularly on “Silver Leaves”, and there is another triumphant epic in “The Way Of The Fire”. After a couple of weeks with Time II, I feel that it is the inferior half, but the difference is slight, and possibly due to the 12 years of bias I have toward the first half – this is an excellently crafted and performed piece of music in every moment, and were there not 19 years of pressure I’d say that not a single Wintersun fan should be disappointed.

Among the many risks that Jari took in keeping this album in the vault for so long was the possibility that Wintersun might become irrelevant. Their first album is what I would call the greatest-ever example of the classic Finnish fusion of melodeath, power, and folk, a sound so distinctive and vital to modern metal that it ought to enjoy protected-designation-of-origin status; Time I built on that exceedingly well with the additional weight of its symphonic and progressive elements. These styles have proliferated immensely over the years, or at least the former variety – they’re beautiful, they’re sensational, and they sell. And when you’re asleep at the wheel for so long, you have to expect that some of your own progeny will sneak up and change the cards. We might have gotten this far and found that nobody needed another helping.

But listening to Time II a whole 12 years after Time I, those apprehensions are whisked away with the wind: the Wintersymphony is inimitably dense and complex. The depth of the sound – the spitfire melodies, the veritable forests of orchestration, the interplay of instrument upon voice upon instrument – is so unlike anything that Wintersun’s contemporaries are attempting. For similar songwriting and stylistic blends, there are easy comparisons: Ensiferum, Brymir, Kalmah, Xanthochroid, Whispered, etc. But when it comes to the sheer depth of this sound, when I’m judging the complexity and thoroughness of all those layers, I’m drawn first and foremost to Rhapsody, whose collaborations with actual orchestras and dominant classical grounding gave their landmark albums a similarly cinematic personality. I hate to say it because it credits the necessity of the time expenditure, but Wintersun more than any other contender possesses voluminous vivacity: this sounds like the tremendous effort that it is, and the result is a rare grandeur.

At the end of this album, I feel an odd mixture of victory and defeat. When Wintersun delivers, it delivers like it’s gutting a goose for hors d’oeuvres in the back of a speeding pizza wagon. They just need to deliver more than once a decade (I don’t consider The Forest Seasons to have done so). I do love Wintersun on a musical level, and I have been successful so far in keeping my long-fermenting frustration with the circumstances from poisoning my experience with Time II itself; my honest assessment is that this album is amazing and I have to admit that I felt a spark of rare disbelieving joy when the promo actually showed up in my inbox unexpectedly. At the same time, I don’t want to forget that I am sick of Wintersun’s bullshit, and I’m not going to argue with any fan who won’t give this album a second thought; Jari’s antics have soured me on his eccentric artist shtick and I’ve come to view his PR tactics as rather more exploitative and arrogant than enamoring. The ends are not going to justify the means for everybody out there. But ultimately that’s a journey for each fan to embark on individually; I’ve told you about the album, and that’s all I can do. Wintersun, you’ve succeeded. Now never, ever do this again.


Rating breakdown
Performance: 10
Songwriting: 8
Originality: 8
Production: 9





Written on 16.08.2024 by I'm the reviewer, and that means my opinion is correct.


Comments

Comments: 72   Visited by: 522 users
16.08.2024 - 14:00
Rating: 9
ScreamingSteelUS
Editor-in-Chief
Admin
I apologize for the essay, which will take as long to read as it did for the album to be released. But I felt that this album above all others deserved so much complaint and description. I will endeavor to be more succinct unless Time III is announced.

Also, no, it's not a belated April Fool's joke. I know, I can't believe it either.
----
"Earth is small and I hate it" - Lum Invader

I'm the Agent of Steel.
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16.08.2024 - 14:20
ickoriss
Great review! I loved all the lead up and I share similar sentiments towards Jari and all the drama over the years. Around the time Time I came out, Wintersun was probably my favorite band, but all of Jari's bullshit over the years definitely made them fall down my list a bit.

Still! Can't wait to hear this album.
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16.08.2024 - 14:27
Blackcrowe
This is a great record, worth taking the time to read the review. great review, by the way
----
Invisible To telescopic eye,
Infinity. The star that would not die
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16.08.2024 - 15:02
Zap
Guest
I stopped caring about Wintersun around the time Time I came out (thank God, because I'm glad I didn't have to endure the time in between as a Wintersun "fan"), but for some reason, with the release of this album drawing near, I feel more and more inclined to revisit them. It feels rather important somehow after ~13 years on this website and countless album threads, drama, jokes, awards in categories you do not want to win, etc. to finally see Wintersun release a (proper) album again.

Anyway, the task of reviewing this album could not have been an easy one, and I am so glad you took it upon yourself as I do hold your reviews in high regard. It's perfectly executed and a joy to read. The review's worth of introduction could not have been for a more fitting album and had me laughing out loud. At the same time I can relate to the frustrations and mixed feelings worded here, even if they're "old" feelings in my case.

And as an addendum to the fourth paragraph of your review: during those nineteen years Devin Townsend released multiple albums, among them Empath, a complex and layered piece of music, with a real orchestra and overall great production that was (partially?) funded with his own money. And it supposedly took about two years two make.
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16.08.2024 - 15:25
F3ynman
Nocturnal Bro
Contributor
Masterfully written review!
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16.08.2024 - 16:53
UPDIRNS
You wrote an amazing review. Very through and thoughtful. Have a great day sir.
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16.08.2024 - 17:55
Rating: 4
Cynic Metalhead
Ambrish Saxena
My body in prostration, eyes bleeding in warmth and cursing simultaneously. Feeling shivering and horny reading your chapter. I need to lift myself up to yank. I can't. I fucking can't.
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16.08.2024 - 18:05
Rating: 10
MeatWolf
>Sigh even beat Wintersun to releasing an album with over 100 tracks per song
>We're not looking at a huge quantity/quality dichotomy here either
Right, because The Way of the Fire contains only ~1100 and Sons of Winter and Stars ~1400.

Also 8 for originality for an album that basically sent many bands on a journey trying to copy the style while all ultimately failing at it, an album written before From Afar, Sagas, Thousand Swords etc.

Many people would like to write something like this even if only for the sake of money, but there appears to be a slight problem with that.
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16.08.2024 - 18:39
Rating: 6
Metren
Dreadrealm
The first half of this review feels like the opening paragraphs of a biography, and a very well-written one at that. I suspect I will not enjoy the album much at all, but I thoroughly enjoyed reading this review.
----
My one-man project's Bandcamp with free downloads: https://dreadrealm.bandcamp.com/
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16.08.2024 - 18:44
Patralgan
Hi! It would've been helpful to describe more clearly what are the shortcomings of the album. You give high praise for the album but take 1.5 points off for some reason. I understand you have deep issues with Jari, but those shouldn't weigh in at all in an album review in my opinion but it feels that's what happening here.
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16.08.2024 - 19:26
Karlabos
Meat and Potatos
Wait, this actually happened?

I thought Time II was a meme. Let me guess: the fans are going to be disappointed.
----
"Aah! The cat turned into a cat!"
- Reimu Hakurei
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16.08.2024 - 19:31
Spacerunner
Some things should be talked through just to leave them behind once and for all. Very complete review, not need to apologize for its length. Glad to know the album is not a flop. Thankfully I've never been a fan enough to follow all peculiarities of Jari's way of doing things. Plus I really liked "Forest Seasons", so it's been seven years for me. The times have changed and I guess the music is created at slower pace than some of my favorite bands did 25 or 30 years ago. As for ethical side, you've said it all. Again, good job.
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16.08.2024 - 19:44
4look4rd
The Sasquatch
I guess Jari finally upgraded the ram in his MacBook Pro.
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16.08.2024 - 19:53
A Real Mönkey
Written by Zap on 16.08.2024 at 15:02

And as an addendum to the fourth paragraph of your review: during those nineteen years Devin Townsend released multiple albums, among them Empath, a complex and layered piece of music, with a real orchestra and overall great production that was (partially?) funded with his own money. And it supposedly took about two years two make.

The Virgin “1 album in 19 years” Wintersun

Vs.

The CHAD “12 albums in 12 years” “Quality AND Quantity” “Hot tub? Is that an instrument?” Devin “Hevy Devy” Townsend
----
"Change the world. My final message. Goodbye."

~Last words of Harambe, seconds before he was shot, according to child he shielded from gunfire
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16.08.2024 - 19:58
Link85
I understand...
I feel exactly the same about George R. R. Martin.
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16.08.2024 - 20:34
Lanthros
Written by Link85 on 16.08.2024 at 19:58

I understand...
I feel exactly the same about George R. R. Martin.

Agreed. He's pretty much let all hope for his next book die.
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17.08.2024 - 00:02
nikarg
Staff
Love the review (the longest ever on this website ?), I hope the album deserves it.
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17.08.2024 - 01:38
Rating: 7
M C Vice
ex-polydactyl
Be honest, ScreamingSteel. Is Time II really about to be released, or is it still a myth and Jari paid you to be part of the con?
----
"Another day, another Doug."
"I'll fight you on one condition. That you lower your nipples."
" 'Tis a lie! Thy backside is whole and ungobbled, thou ungrateful whelp!"
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17.08.2024 - 09:10
Rating: 9
ScreamingSteelUS
Editor-in-Chief
Admin
Written by Zap on 16.08.2024 at 15:02

I stopped caring about Wintersun around the time Time I came out (thank God, because I'm glad I didn't have to endure the time in between as a Wintersun "fan"), but for some reason, with the release of this album drawing near, I feel more and more inclined to revisit them. It feels rather important somehow after ~13 years on this website and countless album threads, drama, jokes, awards in categories you do not want to win, etc. to finally see Wintersun release a (proper) album again.

Anyway, the task of reviewing this album could not have been an easy one, and I am so glad you took it upon yourself as I do hold your reviews in high regard. It's perfectly executed and a joy to read. The review's worth of introduction could not have been for a more fitting album and had me laughing out loud. At the same time I can relate to the frustrations and mixed feelings worded here, even if they're "old" feelings in my case.

And as an addendum to the fourth paragraph of your review: during those nineteen years Devin Townsend released multiple albums, among them Empath, a complex and layered piece of music, with a real orchestra and overall great production that was (partially?) funded with his own money. And it supposedly took about two years two make.

I found myself revisiting the older albums more than I felt I needed to as preparation for this one; in spite of all the resentment I've cultivated over all these years and how much of a joke the whole enterprise became, somehow I uncovered this secret trove of genuine enthusiasm I'd locked away. I was kind of giddy when I actually listened to Time II for the first time because it felt like such a surreal experience. To be honest, I was expecting to be more negative in this review, not necessarily because of the music, just because of my attitude toward the band at this stage, but yeah, it does feel sort of monumental, like a lifetime's journey is ending.

I appreciate your kind words. It was fun to write, which was unexpected. I thought of invoking Devin Townsend as another example, since he, too, is famously productive; I opted not to in the end, but yes, he's been ridiculous - I don't even know how many albums he has released in that period of time, since I don't know how you'd count them. Albums under his own name, with Strapping, as DTP, as Casualties of Cool, and at least one was a double album, plus he always records enough extra material for those bonus discs to last as long as full albums in their own right, and he's just recently dropped numerous albums of pure ambient stuff. And Empath of course was incredible - he's off the charts, as usual.
----
"Earth is small and I hate it" - Lum Invader

I'm the Agent of Steel.
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17.08.2024 - 09:15
Rating: 9
ScreamingSteelUS
Editor-in-Chief
Admin
Written by M C Vice on 17.08.2024 at 01:38

Be honest, ScreamingSteel. Is Time II really about to be released, or is it still a myth and Jari paid you to be part of the con?

I would never take part in such a sordid scheme. Now buy some of these Wintersun coffee mugs, refrigerator magnets, and sweatbands that Jari asked me to hawk for him, or else the album gets pushed back another three years.
----
"Earth is small and I hate it" - Lum Invader

I'm the Agent of Steel.
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17.08.2024 - 10:52
Starvynth
i c deaf people
Staff
Written by Patralgan on 16.08.2024 at 18:44

It would've been helpful to describe more clearly what are the shortcomings of the album. You give high praise for the album but take 1.5 points off for some reason.

Your logic implies that the default rating of every album is 10/10 and that everything Jari delivers is automatically a perfect masterpiece that changed the way we listen to music nowadays. Both are a false assumption and the wrong approach, because a perfect album that justifies the highest score is a very rare exception.
The 8.5 rating chosen by the reviewer lies somewhere between "very good" and "excellent", i.e. significantly better than average. If you think something is better than average, you should be able to justify your opinion, and you'll find plenty of that in the review.
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signatures = SPAM
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17.08.2024 - 11:08
Rating: 7
M C Vice
ex-polydactyl
Written by Starvynth on 17.08.2024 at 10:52

Written by Patralgan on 16.08.2024 at 18:44

It would've been helpful to describe more clearly what are the shortcomings of the album. You give high praise for the album but take 1.5 points off for some reason.

Your logic implies that the default rating of every album is 10/10 and that everything Jari delivers is automatically a perfect masterpiece that changed the way we listen to music nowadays. Both are a false assumption and the wrong approach, because a perfect album that justifies the highest score is a very rare exception.
The 8.5 rating chosen by the reviewer lies somewhere between "very good" and "excellent", i.e. significantly better than average. If you think something is better than average, you should be able to justify your opinion, and you'll find plenty of that in the review.

The 8.5 is also justified by this line "This is exactly what it says on the packaging: it’s Time part two, an epic of lengthy, progressive compositions that spin massive symphonies around dramatic melodeath concepts." and the fact that Steel gave Time I a 9 rating. 8.5 could just as easily be a 9 as an 8, thus II is a natural continuation of I.
----
"Another day, another Doug."
"I'll fight you on one condition. That you lower your nipples."
" 'Tis a lie! Thy backside is whole and ungobbled, thou ungrateful whelp!"
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17.08.2024 - 14:02
Zap
Guest
Written by ScreamingSteelUS on 17.08.2024 at 09:10

I found myself revisiting the older albums more than I felt I needed to as preparation for this one; in spite of all the resentment I've cultivated over all these years and how much of a joke the whole enterprise became, somehow I uncovered this secret trove of genuine enthusiasm I'd locked away. I was kind of giddy when I actually listened to Time II for the first time because it felt like such a surreal experience. To be honest, I was expecting to be more negative in this review, not necessarily because of the music, just because of my attitude toward the band at this stage, but yeah, it does feel sort of monumental, like a lifetime's journey is ending.

I think we feel similarly then, hopefully I will come out of the experience with some semblance of appreciation for Wintersun.
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17.08.2024 - 15:15
Rating: 10
Lvcifer
Rating breakdown for ScreamingSteelUS review:

Whining: 10
Hate to Jari: 10
Delight to Jari: 10
Interesting information about the album: 1

There were a lot of words about the album, but few specifics. I only found out that Silver Leaves will have a lot of erhu.
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https://www.last.fm/ru/user/LuciferBathory
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17.08.2024 - 16:20
Rating: 9
ScreamingSteelUS
Editor-in-Chief
Admin
Written by Patralgan on 16.08.2024 at 18:44

Hi! It would've been helpful to describe more clearly what are the shortcomings of the album. You give high praise for the album but take 1.5 points off for some reason. I understand you have deep issues with Jari, but those shouldn't weigh in at all in an album review in my opinion but it feels that's what happening here.

I mulled over delving further into the negatives, but ultimately decided that with a review this long delving any further would strike Balrog rather than interest. Plus, truth be told, there aren't many shortcomings to discuss; I did mention that the songwriting doesn't quite reach the level of memorability as on Time I, as I would say Time II focuses more on the complexity of its orchestrations where its predecessor boasted more stirring epics, but the level of quality is quite close between them. I couldn't really say that I am disappointed in any regard, except perhaps this thought that the first one might be better, and one of them was bound to be better than the other anyway.

As Starvynth said, viewing it as taking 1.5 points off would require starting at a 10/10 and then deducting points for failures, which is not generally how I approach reviews (or most people, I would venture to guess). I usually hover around a number that feels right based on my enjoyment and my appreciation of the work. To me, an 8.5 is a strong enough rating that it more or less explains itself - this is about the point where an album doesn't really have any major flaws, and if it does not advance higher in rating, it is simply because it isn't the greatest thing I've ever heard, rather than there being something detrimental to its quality. I prefer Time I to this, I prefer Wintersun to Time I, and Wintersun is not quite what I would consider a perfect album only because I don't have a strong connection to every track (though I do see that possibly changing some day), so there has to be some room for them to stack. I don't see it as deducting 1.5 points for some reason but as ticking it all the way up to an 8.5 because of its impressive quality, and if I were to rate it higher, it would have to have slightly better songs or perhaps just fall into a sound or style that I personally enjoy more.

If it feels like I have allowed my personal disdain for Jari to cloud my assessment of the album, then I apologize, as I did try to keep the two separate, though I can assure you that if I had decided to deduct any points because of the circumstances surrounding the album it would be sitting at a big, fat 1.0. I do think that this album more than almost any other demands explication of its production context in a review, but I have thoroughly enjoyed the album on its own merits, so that did not factor into my calculation of the score.
----
"Earth is small and I hate it" - Lum Invader

I'm the Agent of Steel.
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17.08.2024 - 18:36
Rating: 9
hellsmiles
Absolutely solid review. I really haven't allowed myself to be hyped for this, because I felt that no matter how good it is the immense baggage surrounding it and the band in general would harshly weigh it down. But your enjoyment despite all that gives me a lot of hope, and I'm not so sure I can stop the hype anymore haha. Excellent work here nonetheless!
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17.08.2024 - 18:47
Rating: 4
Cynic Metalhead
Ambrish Saxena
Written by Lvcifer on 17.08.2024 at 15:15

Rating breakdown for ScreamingSteelUS review:

There were a lot of words about the album, but few specifics.

Kindly mention here the specifics he missed.
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17.08.2024 - 22:53
Patralgan
Written by ScreamingSteelUS on 17.08.2024 at 16:20

Written by Patralgan on 16.08.2024 at 18:44

Hi! It would've been helpful to describe more clearly what are the shortcomings of the album. You give high praise for the album but take 1.5 points off for some reason. I understand you have deep issues with Jari, but those shouldn't weigh in at all in an album review in my opinion but it feels that's what happening here.

I mulled over delving further into the negatives, but ultimately decided that with a review this long delving any further would strike Balrog rather than interest. Plus, truth be told, there aren't many shortcomings to discuss; I did mention that the songwriting doesn't quite reach the level of memorability as on Time I, as I would say Time II focuses more on the complexity of its orchestrations where its predecessor boasted more stirring epics, but the level of quality is quite close between them. I couldn't really say that I am disappointed in any regard, except perhaps this thought that the first one might be better, and one of them was bound to be better than the other anyway.

As Starvynth said, viewing it as taking 1.5 points off would require starting at a 10/10 and then deducting points for failures, which is not generally how I approach reviews (or most people, I would venture to guess). I usually hover around a number that feels right based on my enjoyment and my appreciation of the work. To me, an 8.5 is a strong enough rating that it more or less explains itself - this is about the point where an album doesn't really have any major flaws, and if it does not advance higher in rating, it is simply because it isn't the greatest thing I've ever heard, rather than there being something detrimental to its quality. I prefer Time I to this, I prefer Wintersun to Time I, and Wintersun is not quite what I would consider a perfect album only because I don't have a strong connection to every track (though I do see that possibly changing some day), so there has to be some room for them to stack. I don't see it as deducting 1.5 points for some reason but as ticking it all the way up to an 8.5 because of its impressive quality, and if I were to rate it higher, it would have to have slightly better songs or perhaps just fall into a sound or style that I personally enjoy more.

If it feels like I have allowed my personal disdain for Jari to cloud my assessment of the album, then I apologize, as I did try to keep the two separate, though I can assure you that if I had decided to deduct any points because of the circumstances surrounding the album it would be sitting at a big, fat 1.0. I do think that this album more than almost any other demands explication of its production context in a review, but I have thoroughly enjoyed the album on its own merits, so that did not factor into my calculation of the score.

Thank you so much for the explanation!
I was only a bit confused because the written review made it sound more like a 10/10 or 9.5/10 and the actual score didn't seem to match the review, but now I understand 🙏
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17.08.2024 - 23:09
Patralgan
Written by Starvynth on 17.08.2024 at 10:52

Written by Patralgan on 16.08.2024 at 18:44

It would've been helpful to describe more clearly what are the shortcomings of the album. You give high praise for the album but take 1.5 points off for some reason.

Your logic implies that the default rating of every album is 10/10 and that everything Jari delivers is automatically a perfect masterpiece.

Not quite. When I read the review, I felt that the written review and the score didn't match because not much negative about the album was mentioned and if something is that faultless, to me it would justify a 10/10. That's all.

Also what Jari delivers is definitely not automatically a masterpiece. I would give the debut album maybe 8/10 and The Forest Seasons is a bit of a mixed bag. Track 1 is a solid metal song, but isn't exceptional like Jari's best songs. The second track is Jari's worst song imho, I don't enjoy it very much. The last two tracks however do rise to the exceptional masterpiece category. Time I is very exceptional, except I'm not a big fan of Land of Snow and Sorrow. The other two plus the intro are fantastic. I have extremely high expectations for Time II and I already know that The Way of the Fire is easily my all time favorite song as I've been listening the live videos of that song the past 13 years and it's always a blissful experience.

I'm not saying that Wintersun is the best band ever, but when I listen to Jari's music, I feel like I'm home. It's the kind of music I would make if I could. So that's my tie with the band. Cheers.
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18.08.2024 - 15:52
Cronopio
This is one of the best reviews of a piece of music I've ever read, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if it turned out to be better than the actual album.
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Pulvis et umbra.
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