Written by deadone on 24.03.2014 at 01:20

It came out in 2001, not the 1990s.

And from memory, at the time of recording Opeth were out of contract and the band financed the album.

Death metal was started gaining recognition at the end of the 90's. The album released in 2001, but they started to work on it at the end of the 90's

As for if Opeth financed their own album...I am very sceptical. I still can remember clearly Opeth was the first Sony's Death apple at the 90's-2000's

Written by deadone on 24.03.2014 at 23:56

Erm...Death Metal started gaining recognition in the 1980s and actually hit it's peak in the mid 1990s with stuff like Morbid Angel and Cannibal Corpse achieving reasonable commercial success.

Erm...50% correct.
- Every kind of new genre needs 5-10 years to become stable, Death Metal started developing (not gaining recognition) in the mid -late 1980s, gaining recognition in the early 1990s.
- Morbid Angel gained popularity only after the release of Covenant in 1993, then listeners started exploring their past releases Altars...and Blessed....

Written by deadone on 25.03.2014 at 07:03

1) Death Metal had stabilised stylistically by 1989.

It peaked commercially in 1992-95 and from 1995 had become completely oversaturated and went into decline, until the early 2000s when Behemoth and Nile kick started the genre back into life.

As for Morbid Angel, Altars of Madness was up there with Death's Leprosy, Deicide's self titled etc as a pioneering album and recognised as such by early DM fans. They became "mainstream" popular with Covenant but by then Floridan DM was already starting to run out of steam.

2) Also not much in Blackwater Park is Death Metal bar the vocals. The heavy bits are certainly not Death Metal for the most part.

3) Marcel and some of the other true old schoolers can extrapolate further.

1) 100% agreed
2) Progressive Death Metal
3) Don't depend on him, you know better than him

Personally wouldn't say there's an ounce of melodic death, be it of the Gothenburg variety or otherwise, in Opeth. Certainly nothing death or melodic death metal in BwP. Hell, that would imply it borrows from Iron Maiden's melodic sensibilities which it never has to my mind. My Arms... is the closest it ever came to being a death metal band, but most other works are just progressive metal with death growls, maybe a tiny, minute smidgen of black metal in the first album, but really not enough worth mentioning.

Written by [user id=4365] on 25.03.2014 at 13:49

Personally wouldn't say there's an ounce of melodic death, be it of the Gothenburg variety of otherwise, in Opeth. Certainly nothing death or melodic death metal in BwP. Hell, that would imply it borrows from Iron Maiden's melodic sensibilities which it never has to my mind. My Arms... is the closest it ever came to being a death metal band, but most other works are just progressive metal with death growls, maybe a tiny, minute smidgen of black metal in the first album, but really not enough worth mentioning.

I am still why people keep on referring to Opeth as melodic death metal and such. Like you said the closest they ever were to death metal was on My Arms. Hell, at least the last couple of posters didn't call Opeth doom metal (which I have seen happen laods of times as well).

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 25.03.2014 at 13:56


I am still why people keep on referring to Opeth as melodic death metal and such. Like you said the closest they ever were to death metal was on My Arms. Hell, at least the last couple of posters didn't call Opeth doom metal (which I have seen happen laods of times as well).

Probably those people that compare Katatonia and Opeth, which I've seen quite a lot.

People probably put death growls + melodic musicianship together and come up with melodeath.

Extreme progressive metal and that's it.

Written by [user id=110592] on 25.03.2014 at 18:21

Extreme progressive metal and that's it.

For the most part, yes.

Written by deadone on 26.03.2014 at 00:09

I mean people still refer to Dark Tranquillity and In Flames as melodic DM but they've not done anything true melodic DM for years.

Pretty sure no one has referred to In Flames as melodic death since Soundtrack To Your Escape, or Come Clarity at least. Dark Tranquillity is a bit more debatable but then they were always a little different with their sound anyway and more than just Iron Maiden with screamy vocals.

Written by deadone on 26.03.2014 at 00:25

I'd say In Flames stopped being melodic DM with Whoracle or at the latest Clayman. Whoracle/Colony was melodic and groovy with Death vocals. Clayman replaced growled vocals with more shouty ones ala what one considers metalcore vocals these days.

DT haven't been Melodic DM for decades now (since Minds I at least). Their post Minds I stuff always seems more in common with Nevermore and Iced Earth with growled vocals. Their last couple of albums seem almost gothic metal.

Oh and DT one of my favourite bands of all time too and I love Whoracle and Colony.

There's others too ala In Arch Enemy etc.

Most melodic DM basically stopped having any Death components other than vocals in it from about 1999!

Well death growls have never been part and parcel of melodeath anyway, and neither has death metal of really any kind, so it really doesn't matter. Early In Flames weren't death growls or death metal, more gutteral rasps and sped up Iron Maiden than anything. Post-Clayman probably isn't melodeath however, going from nu-metal influence to the strange, clinical whatever SttYE and then the kind of alternative metal thing they did after.

Certainly wouldn't put Dark Tranquillity in with Nevermore myself, or Iced Earth (not that I listen to them). And, well, DT never had growls either Stanne was always a black metal type vocalist to my ears.

Early Arch Enemy may have had some death metal in (a mix of death, thrash and Iron Maideny-ness) but really At The Gates are the only big-boy melodeath band that were death metal, and even then only earlier on.

Written by deadone on 26.03.2014 at 00:40

Bands like Dismember (Massive Killing Capacity, Death Metal), Edge of Sanity, early At The Gates and Carcass actually did include DM in their melodic DM.

I'd say they included melody in their death metal, rather than death metal in their melodeath Quite a lot of death metal bands include a lot of melody without really being melodic death metal. Sounds weird writing it out like that but I'd still call them two separate things.

Written by deadone on 26.03.2014 at 01:07

You've got me confused, that's for sure!

Put it this way, the term/adjective "melodic" itself is confusing enough, it's very redundant actually.
May be in the early 90's, someone wanted to use it to seperate Gothenburg/ Melodeath and Pure Death Metal as two different identities.
So whichever Death Metal band heavily used keyboards as part of the musical composition is categorized as Melodeath.
Still redundant !

Written by Dr. Strawberry on 27.03.2014 at 10:26

Put it this way, the term/adjective "melodic" itself is confusing enough, it's very redundant actually.
May be in the early 90's, someone wanted to use it to seperate Gothenburg/ Melodeath and Pure Death Metal as two different identities.
So whichever Death Metal band heavily used keyboards as part of the musical composition is categorized as Melodeath.
Still redundant !

What the hell does it have to do with keyboards they have no bearing on whether or not something is melodeath, especially as many of the original Gothenburg albums were totally devoid of keyboards.

What's redundant in the term "melodic death metal" is the "death metal" bit, because melodeath tend not to have much, or any, death metal in (as opposed to actual death metal bands that use a bit of melody here and then, who aren't referred to as melodeath, hence the difference).

Written by [user id=4365] on 27.03.2014 at 11:41

What the hell does it have to do with keyboards they have no bearing on whether or not something is melodeath, especially as many of the original Gothenburg albums were totally devoid of keyboards.

What's redundant in the term "melodic death metal" is the "death metal" bit, because melodeath tend not to have much, or any, death metal in (as opposed to actual death metal bands that use a bit of melody here and then, who aren't referred to as melodeath, hence the difference).

The more you talk the more you will expose your weakness in music !

1) What the hell does it have to do with keyboards they have no bearing on whether or not something is melodeath...
- I guess you don't know any hell about music ! Most of the time you can only choose either Keyboards or E. Guitars to act as the main role because both musical instrument have very estranged keys. Normally Keyboards is more melodic than E. Guitars.

2)...especially as many of the original Gothenburg albums were totally devoid of keyboards.
- May I have some examples from you ?

3) What's redundant in the term "melodic death metal" is the "death metal" bit, because melodeath tend not to have much, or any, death metal in (as opposed to actual death metal bands that use a bit of melody here and then, who aren't referred to as melodeath, hence the difference).
- Crap ! Don't know what are you talking about.

Written by Dr. Strawberry on 27.03.2014 at 12:07

The more you talk the more you will expose your weakness in music !
I guess you don't know any hell about music ! Most of the time you can only choose either Keyboards or E. Guitars to act as the main role because both musical instrument have very estranged keys. Normally Keyboards is more melodic than E. Guitars.

What are you blathering about now? I've never said that keyboards are more or less melodic than guitars (not that that is true in every case either). Read what I actually said: melodic death metal is not incumbent on having keyboards. By your definition Nocturnus' 'The Key' album is a melodeath album because it has keyboards.

Quote:
- May I have some examples from you ?

Sure




In fact Soilwork were pretty much the only one of the original big Gothenburg bands to keyboards around this time, and even then not in any significant way.

Quote:
Crap ! Don't know what are you talking about.

Doesn't surprise me. I'm not even sure you know what you're talking about half the time.

Written by [user id=4365] on 27.03.2014 at 12:19

What are you blathering about now? I've never said that keyboards are more or less melodic than guitars (not that that is true is every case either). Read what I actually said: melodic death metal is not incumbent on having keyboards. By your definition Nocturnus' 'The Key' album is a melodeath album because it has keyboards.

Thanks for your prompt reply.
And also thanks for helping me to rectify your own mistakes.
- As for the albums mentioned, Dark Tranquillity (Osmose), In Flames (Nuclear Blast), At The Gate (Earache) and Arch Enemy (Regan), all are considered Death Metal ! There was NO Gothenburg in that era. Their direction changed to more Keyboards- orientated Gothenburg afterwards.
- Without you their music labels didn't even know they have signed a Gothenburg band before !

Written by Dr. Strawberry on 27.03.2014 at 12:34

And also thanks for helping me to rectify your own mistakes.
- As for the albums mentioned, Dark Tranquillity (Osmose), In Flames (Nuclear Blast), At The Gate (Earache) and Arch Enemy (Regan), all are considered Death Metal ! There was NO Gothenburg in that era. Their direction changed to more Keyboards- orientated Gothenburg afterwards.

Not even going to give a response to this comment. Just going to quote it so people can see it and have a good laugh.

!J.O.O.E.! : By your definition Nocturnus' 'The Key' album is a melodeath album because it has keyboards ?

- Not really, Keyboards are used to create the space-atmosphere in Nocturnus's album, nothing to do with melody...please bear in mind Keyboards are not piano but synthesiszers, most of the time it was used for the sake of creating certain kinds of moods that can not be done by other musical instruments

Written by Dr. Strawberry on 27.03.2014 at 12:41

By your definition Nocturnus' 'The Key' album is a melodeath album because it has keyboards ?

- Not really, Keyboards are used to create the space-atmosphere in Nocturnus's album, nothing to do with melody...please bear in mind Keyboards are not piano but synthesiszers, most of the time it was used for the sake of creating certain kinds of moods that can not be done by other musical instruments

didnt you just disvalidate your own statement by this.response?

I can't get this album.. I hate some song parts to the point when the songs get to that part I just change song (talking about 2nd half of blackwater park)

A great opeth record but not the best.. and certainly not deserving top spot of metalstorm..

Written by deadone on 31.03.2014 at 01:27

Soilwork were certainly not one of the original big Gothenburg bands. They were one of the second wave along with The Haunted, Dminesion Zero, Carnal Forge, Ebony Tears etc

By the time Steelbath Suicide came out, At The Gates had long broken up, In Flames was up to Whoracle, Arch Enemy up to Stigmata, Dark Tranquillity were getting ready to release Projector etc.

Hmm that's true, I could have sworn they were a bit earlier than they actually were. In that case then keyboards really weren't integral to the (original at least) Gothenburg sound.

Damn, This album is a great grower, took me atleast 5 listens to make the production sit with me and then really starting to enjoy the album now. The only thing that was obvious from the beginning is that the title track is a absolute masterpiece.

I guess God Buster finally got BUSTED!

Oh, what an overrated album.
Lacks heaviness, songwriting, and a stable point.

IMO, musically, Damnation is the best work Opeth has ever made.
BWP, in the other way, is a 7/10, to much.

We will see what they do with the new album that will launch this year

Written by [user id=150501] on 09.06.2014 at 17:47

BWP, in the other way, is a 7/10

Yet rates it as a 1.

Written by Karlabos on 09.06.2014 at 18:10

Written by [user id=150501] on 09.06.2014 at 17:47

BWP, in the other way, is a 7/10

Yet rates it as a 1.

LOL, i hate it so much ^^. I give it a 7, anyway.

Hating beautiful and complex music just for the sake of hating is really something I dont understand. If they were all living in 5 story mansions, driving in limo's, drinking champaigne and being blown constantly by 1000 dollar hookers...but thats not the case

I think that when there is an excessive amount of praise for something, people that don't share in the appreciation are automatically going to feel pushed in the opposite direction. At least, that's my experience in internet forums. This is a favorite album for many of us, and so those that don't like it are in many cases going to respond more aggressively than they would to some random obscure album that you love but isn't making any "best ever" lists.

I love Blackwater Park, but I've been a fan long enough to see a lot of people trash it, and trash Opeth in general. As early as Deliverance, there was a pretty vocal faction of people that couldn't stand them. That's fine, too. If it ever bothers you, ask them what they like. Odds are, you'll poorly enough of some of their choices that you realize how little their opinion matters.

I think this is by far their most complete album, in that it feels more focused, driven, intense, and purposeful than the rest of their discography. There are the standard meandering moments seemingly typical of a prog band, but on the whole they reign in the technical overload and instead create a much more encompassing atmospheric album that highlights their songwriting prowess. My typical complaints about the acoustic breaks and clean vocals still stand, but this is a refined and mature piece of work. I understand why people have come to appreciate it so much, but for me - as with all Opeth albums - it doesn't lend enough weight to the extreme aspects and I find their acoustic work rather mundane.

Love the album, but to me Still Life is superior. Both in the more calm moments as well and the more brutal ones.