Pure Classic Progressive Heavy Metal .

Pure perfection of music.

Their second best album for me, I still can't understand why Savatage isn't famous.

Always an impressive album. The title track and "When The Crowds Are Gone" are classic songs without a question

Prog at where it all began. Beautiful album. When the crowds are gone and the title track are among the band's all-time classics.

Written by Redel on 21.02.2017 at 23:45

Prog at where it all began. Beautiful album. When the crowds are gone and the title track are among the band's all-time classics.

I couldn't agree more.
This definately is a beautiful, timeless album and these two tracks do easily belong to my personal top 5 of Savatage. Right now, I can only recall "A Little Too Far" and "Believe" to be on par.

Usually, I do not come back to these classic bands anymore. All these old, well-known and venerable heavy metal and hard rock acts of the past, they mean less than little to me now. It is kinda sad, but I've grown out of this kind of music many years ago. Nowadays, I'd rather attend a hip hop concert than going to some hard rock pub.
Savatage, though, is a big exception. It's not that I like all of their songs or albums (there's some utter crap and lots of fillers as well) and I wouldn't call me a real fan either, but some of their compositions are still simply gorgeous and they didn't loose any of their beauty in the last 30 years.

Written by Starvynth on 17.04.2019 at 23:46

I couldn't agree more.
This definately is a beautiful, timeless album and these two tracks do easily belong to my personal top 5 of Savatage. Right now, I can only recall "A Little Too Far" and "Believe" to be on par.

Usually, I do not come back to these classic bands anymore. All these old, well-known and venerable heavy metal and hard rock acts of the past, they mean less than little to me now. It is kinda sad, but I've grown out of this kind of music many years ago. Nowadays, I'd rather attend a hip hop concert than going to some hard rock pub.
Savatage, though, is a big exception. It's not that I like all of their songs or albums (there's some utter crap and lots of fillers as well) and I wouldn't call me a real fan either, but some of their compositions are still simply gorgeous and they didn't loose any of their beauty in the last 30 years.

Yes, I also have A Little too far and Believe pretty much at par with the two tracks mentioned. But my all-time favourite Savatage songs are Chance and Morphine Child. These choruses just do it for me.

I am curious which old well-known Heavy Metal bands in particular you have in mind when you say that you would rather attend a hip hop concert than having a beer in a decent hard rock cafe -- possibly with music from such bands running from the speakers. Because there I would clearly not join you -- ok, maybe if we are talking about Manowar.

I do not adore all Savatage albums either, but utter crap I do not recall.

Yeah and whether they lost some of their beauty over the last 30 years or not is a question I have been wondering about for myself in recent years every now and then.
Because some 10 years ago or so I would have put it just like you did -- swap the 30 for a 20 in this case. But recently I sometimes got a little sad when I came back to some of their albums that I used to adore , such as Streets or Handful of Rain, realising that there might be a tiny loss of beauty which I have always believed to be impossible with this band -- possibly even a bit more than a tiny bit

Written by Redel on 19.04.2019 at 17:07

I am curious which old well-known Heavy Metal bands in particular you have in mind when you say that you would rather attend a hip hop concert than having a beer in a decent hard rock cafe -- possibly with music from such bands running from the speakers.

I said 'heavy metal and hard rock' and I'm afraid it's a rather long list:
Accept, U.D.O., Running Wild, everything but two or three songs of Judas Priest and Kiss, Stratovarius, Dokken, Alice Cooper, Grave Digger, AC/DC, Skid Row, King Diamond & Mercyful Fate, Europe, Axel Rudi Pell, Anvil, Pink Cream 69, Gamma Ray... and almost everything people like to call 'European Flower Metal'. I don't mind two or three albums of Blind Guardian and early Helloween, though.

You know, I'm a simple man and simple people tend to believe in stereotypes. My cliche of today's hard rock cafes are baldheaded mid-fifties dressed in old-fashioned jeans and washed-out 'Mötorhead England' muscle shirts (hardly covering their belly buttons) staring at the only woman of a scummy pub, heralding bar room slogans and headbanging to Bon Jovi's "It's My Life".
In these moments, I'm glad it's not my life...
Having a beer in some Irish pub is a completely different experience, but the mere idea of a typical german hard rock pub already makes me feel uncomfortable.

Written by Redel on 19.04.2019 at 17:07

I do not adore all Savatage albums either, but utter crap I do not recall.

Maybe utter crap was a bit too harsh, but I'd call any album without at least one or two memorable songs a total waste. In my book, e.g. Fight For The Rock is a terrible waste and that's just an alternative name for 'crap'.

Written by Redel on 19.04.2019 at 17:07

Yeah and whether they lost some of their beauty over the last 30 years or not is a question I have been wondering about for myself in recent years every now and then.

Maybe it helped that I haven't been listening to Savatage for a very long while, it must have been around 2000 when I retired my record player.
Just recently I stumbled upon the re-mastered versions of their albums (released by earMUSIC in 2011) on digipak CD and grabbed Streets and Gutter Ballet because they are on clearance sale for just a few bucks.

Written by Starvynth on 21.04.2019 at 00:17

I said 'heavy metal and hard rock' and I'm afraid it's a rather long list:
Accept, U.D.O., Running Wild, everything but two or three songs of Judas Priest and Kiss, Stratovarius, Dokken, Alice Cooper, Grave Digger, AC/DC, Skid Row, King Diamond & Mercyful Fate, Europe, Axel Rudi Pell, Anvil, Pink Cream 69, Gamma Ray... and almost everything people like to call 'European Flower Metal'. I don't mind two or three albums of Blind Guardian and early Helloween, though.

Ok, for many of these bands I think I do understand your today's point of view---though I dont really second it entirely for most of the bands.
For some bands I just dont know because I never got too deep into them.
But, "everything but two or three songs of Judas Priest"---oh, nooooo, come on. That is just .... reallly...?
Such an excellent, classic band. Priest for me, you know, is just a flower never fading--ok probably limited to Sad Wings, Stained Class, Screaming, Defenders, and Painkiller.

Written by Starvynth on 21.04.2019 at 00:17

You know, I'm a simple man and simple people tend to believe in stereotypes. My cliche of today's hard rock cafes are baldheaded mid-fifties dressed in old-fashioned jeans and washed-out 'Mötorhead England' muscle shirts (hardly covering their belly buttons) staring at the only woman of a scummy pub, heralding bar room slogans and headbanging to Bon Jovi's "It's My Life".
In these moments, I'm glad it's not my life...

Yeah, ok, I guess I am having the exact same picture you are painting here in front of me right now, taken from my memory back from my time in a German small town. And, I am glad it is not my life either.
[Funny side note though: Been to this very small town again the past three days. Seen more people wearing Metal T-shirts there than in an entire year in Berlin, the city I live in, which is more or less a Metal desert.]

Written by Starvynth on 21.04.2019 at 00:17

In my book, e.g. Fight For The Rock is a terrible waste and that's just an alternative name for 'crap'.

That was actually the only album I also had in mind here. It is clearly their worst. Cant remember more than two spins some time loooooong ago.

Written by Starvynth on 21.04.2019 at 00:17

Maybe it helped that I haven't been listening to Savatage for a very long while, it must have been around 2000 when I retired my record player.
Just recently I stumbled upon the re-mastered versions of their albums (released by earMUSIC in 2011) on digipak CD and grabbed Streets and Gutter Ballet because they are on clearance sale for just a few bucks.

Certainly helped I guess.
I would be curious what your opinion is about their album Handful of rain--if you recall anything at all.

Written by Starvynth on 21.04.2019 at 00:17

grabbed Streets and Gutter Ballet

My favourite two albums by Savatage. There was even a time when I considered Streets to be better than The Crimson Idol. Maybe I still do, can't decide really.

Written by Redel on 21.04.2019 at 23:49

For some bands I just dont know because I never got too deep into them.
But, "everything but two or three songs of Judas Priest"---oh, nooooo, come on. That is just .... reallly...?
Such an excellent, classic band. Priest for me, you know, is just a flower never fading--ok probably limited to Sad Wings, Stained Class, Screaming, Defenders, and Painkiller.

Never really liked Judas Priest, basically due to Halford's vocals - I just can't stand his high-pitched voice.
Sorry to all adorers of the Metal Gods, but for me, the 'flower never fading' was more like an ever pricking cactus, the stench being Rob's vocals.

Written by Redel on 21.04.2019 at 23:49

I would be curious what your opinion is about their album Handful of rain--if you recall anything at all.

I didn't recall anything but gave it a listen just now. Unfortunately, what I've heard more or less only confirmed the rather low hopes I already had.
Low hopes? Yes, because for me, anything after Streets wasn't really Savatage anymore, at least not that version of Savatage I learned to love. Classic Savatage line-up was Jon Oliva, Criss Oliva, Johnny Lee Middleton and Steve Wacholz, but basically, only Criss, Jon and their producer Paul O'Neill were involved in the songwriting and recording process.
Criss sadly passed away in 1993 so somebody had to take over his job on the guitars. I believe it was a terribly bad idea to choose Testament's Alex Skolnick, his guitar play didn't fit in with the typical Savatage sound at all. Middleton and Wacholz didn't belong to the band anymore (both are being credited for Handful Of Rain but didn't play a single note) and above that, Jon's beautiful, unique voice was replaced by Zak Stevens' rather generic hard rock vocals.
As a consequence, I just can't take much pleasure of Handful Of Rain, to me it sounds like a different and 'incomplete' band. There are some traces of Savatage's former fame, but most of these songs are older tracks and leftovers of the Streets sessions. As an example, "Alone You Breathe" is nothing but a slightly enhanced medley of "A Little Too Far" and "Believe".
I think its' too bad that the classic line-up didn't record these songs, then it still might have turned out to be a good album. But after the loss of his brother, Jon Oliva alone just couldn't fill in all the gaps anymore. That's what I think.

Written by nikarg on 22.04.2019 at 10:32

My favourite two albums by Savatage. There was even a time when I considered Streets to be better than The Crimson Idol. Maybe I still do, can't decide really.

Same here, both albums are far and away my favorites of Savatage.

This was one of the first records I ever bought on CD. I'd made the switch from vinyl to CD a few weeks before it came out. I remember loving the title track at the time but I haven't played it for many a year. Perhaps I'll give it a spin tonight.

Written by Starvynth on 23.04.2019 at 14:24

Low hopes? Yes, because for me, anything after Streets wasn't really Savatage anymore, at least not that version of Savatage I learned to love. Classic Savatage line-up was Jon Oliva, Criss Oliva, Johnny Lee Middleton and Steve Wacholz, but basically, only Criss, Jon and their producer Paul O'Neill were involved in the songwriting and recording process.
Criss sadly passed away in 1993 so somebody had to take over his job on the guitars. I believe it was a terribly bad idea to choose Testament's Alex Skolnick, his guitar play didn't fit in with the typical Savatage sound at all. Middleton and Wacholz didn't belong to the band anymore (both are being credited for Handful Of Rain but didn't play a single note) and above that, Jon's beautiful, unique voice was replaced by Zak Stevens' rather generic hard rock vocals.
As a consequence, I just can't take much pleasure of Handful Of Rain, to me it sounds like a different and 'incomplete' band. There are some traces of Savatage's former fame, but most of these songs are older tracks and leftovers of the Streets sessions. As an example, "Alone You Breathe" is nothing but a slightly enhanced medley of "A Little Too Far" and "Believe".
I think its' too bad that the classic line-up didn't record these songs, then it still might have turned out to be a good album. But after the loss of his brother, Jon Oliva alone just couldn't fill in all the gaps anymore. That's what I think.

I see, the usual critique this album gets--and understandably so.
Luckily for me, I got to know Savatage with the Handful of Rain album first, only a couple of months or so later I found out about their earlier work, where the line-up was obviously superior, in particular at the vocals, of course. Cant really say why, HoR nevertheless always remained among my favourite albums by them (Chance, Castels burning, Alone you breathe, all just so excellent)--together with Streets and Gutter Ballet, although there is quite a difference between these albums. Probably that is again due to my "the first love will always survive" theory.
Well, wrong thread, I know, so lets leave it at that here for this album.

The first step into the new version of Savatage. Sure Paul O'Neill was part of the Hall of the Mountain King but this is where he starts to become the showrunner. This is like a bridge though where we still get a part of USPM mixed with a more melodic, progressive and theatrical direction and it works quite well. It opens with a classic Savatage track with hardhitting guitar riffs and agressive vocals and then comes the title track which is just a monster of a track with a intro and guitar riff that is equally iconic as any other huge heavy metal tracks (example Mr. Crowley, Hallowed Be Thy Name, Holy diver and so on). After these two songs the album gets into a bit of a rollercoaster ride with instrumentals, ballads and some down right heavy metal tunes. It's a interesting album as it has a good variation in songs but it doesn't have the same flow and coherent song writing Hall of the Mountain King had. Besides the two opening tracks I really like the haunting Hounds (the solo part is fantastic!) and The Unholy which offers some real nice USPM.

Listened this album again after decade or so and it still kicks ass. However, I had to lower the rating from 10 to 9 because I just found some lyrics to be very silly. For example, "When The Crowds Are Gone" has a part about all friends being crucified. I know it's supposed to some sort of allegory or something, but it still sounds goofy.

Written by Metal Rasputin on 04.08.2021 at 15:59

Listened this album again after decade or so and it still kicks ass. However, I had to lower the rating from 10 to 9 because I just found some lyrics to be very silly. For example, "When The Crowds Are Gone" has a part about all friends being crucified. I know it's supposed to some sort of allegory or something, but it still sounds goofy.

You lowered your rating on this album because of the lyrics of When the Crowds are Gone!?
Wow, I am speechless. The lyrics on this exact songs are some of the greatest I am aware of.

Written by Starvynth on 17.04.2019 at 23:46

Usually, I do not come back to these classic bands anymore. All these old, well-known and venerable heavy metal and hard rock acts of the past, they mean less than little to me now. It is kinda sad, but I've grown out of this kind of music many years ago. Nowadays, I'd rather attend a hip hop concert than going to some hard rock pub.

Reading these lines again today just made me smile since you shopped for the first seven Manowar albums recently.

Written by Redel on 02.10.2021 at 22:22

Reading these lines again today just made me smile since you shopped for the first seven Manowar albums recently.

Well, what can I say... Maybe a sudden attack of nostalgia coupled with the fact that old people tend to do strange things?

Written by Redel on 02.10.2021 at 22:07

You lowered your rating on this album because of the lyrics of When the Crowds are Gone!?
Wow, I am speechless. The lyrics on this exact songs are some of the greatest I am aware of.

That's pretty subjective. I don't think When the Crowds's especially great song at all, that silly melodrama plus those lyrics just aren't my thing. In my opinion it's the weakest song on the album.

Written by Metal Rasputin on 03.10.2021 at 00:46

That's pretty subjective.

Sure it is. And that is totally fine.
I was just so surprised reading your lines. I would not have expected anyone finding the lyrics on When the Crowds are Gone silly. That's why I commented. But hey, to everyone their own.